Tracing a relative

[Gary C]

Hi

For complicated reasons I need to trace a relative

Now I have traced the person down to the USA but they were born in Ireland and the immigration list I have found shows the relative and her sister coming into new york in 1953 (Philomena and Mary Doran)



But I cannot find hide nor hair in Ireland (ROI or NI).

Does anyone have any ideas, I note that the immigration document shows some travel document numbers, does anyone recognise these, are they US numbers or would they be a document I can trace in Ireland.

I am trying multiple paths, but PH often amazes with its depth of knowledge and any help would be appreciated

[Levin]

Do you have a higher quality version of the screenshot? What I can make out is that they sailed on the MV Georgic, a White Star Line ship constructed in Belfast in 1932 which sailed Liverpool - New York in the early 1950s, and was scrapped in 1956. The document appears to show the ship leaving from Cobh, in County Cork, which may be a potential lead.

Another option might be to check on Facebook for some kind of New Yorker Irish society. While age and the passage of time might be troublesome factors (do you know how old Mary and Philomena were?), the name Philomena might just narrow things down for you. The 1926 census results aren't available until 2027 so they're a total bust. You'd be relying on 1911 which appears to me spectacularly unlikely.

Edit: try this link and search the names. There's evidence of a Philomena Doran having arrived at Ellis Island on the Georgic in 1953. It looks like you might have to register to get the full details.

Edit 2: I signed up using a throwaway email address. Data available is limited but both names appear to be under-15. Both are also recorded as British, which would leave me thinking they were born in Northern Ireland.

Edit 3: If I'm right in my hunch that they were born in Northern Ireland, then an in-person visit to the General Register Office in Belfast is the inconvenient solution. Birth records less than a century old can't be accessed online, but they can be in-person. Unsurprisingly, appointments have to be booked in advance, yet the office closes at 4pm every weekday... and it isn't open on weekends.

Edited by Levin on Tuesday 10th January 22:40

[The Moose]

My guess is Philomena was 13 y.o. and Mary 9.

Both Catholic first names so may help? Are you sure they were born in Ireland when showing British nationality?

This looks like a possibility for Philomena:


Either of these a possibility for Mary?:

Edited by The Moose on Tuesday 10th January 23:50

[anonymous-user]

No input, apart from this is a fascinating test.

[Jordie Barretts sock]

Nothing of use to add, save that anyone born in the Irish Free State (before 1947) has the right to a UK passport, so stating they are British may not be incorrect.

[Gary C]

I have records of them in the US and passenger lists as they come into the US from Ireland but I cannot find a record of birth for either of them in any part of Ireland (north or ROI)

I wondered on that passenger manifest if the 'travel document' number was a US document or an Irish document.

Both were meant to have been born in Belfast (So UK citizen) but the Irish records seem to be missing.

[Pinkie15]

I can't help your search, and you may know this, but (Ro)Ireland records are extremely patchy because their records office was destroyed by fire in the first half of the 1900s (I can't recall exact date).

[zombeh]

Gary C said:

I note that the immigration document shows some travel document numbers, does anyone recognise these, are they US numbers or would they be a document I can trace in Ireland.

Some sticking sensible sounding search terms into an internet reveals https://historyhub.history.gov/thread/3536 suggesting that those are Immigrant Visa numbers

[The Moose]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Nothing of use to add, save that anyone born in the Irish Free State (before 1947) has the right to a UK passport, so stating they are British may not be incorrect.

Interesting! You’re either v old and/or have some interesting knowledge

[Gary C]

zombeh said:

Gary C said:

I note that the immigration document shows some travel document numbers, does anyone recognise these, are they US numbers or would they be a document I can trace in Ireland.

Some sticking sensible sounding search terms into an internet reveals https://historyhub.history.gov/thread/3536 suggesting that those are Immigrant Visa numbers

Cheers, thats usefull./

[Jordie Barretts sock]

The Moose said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Nothing of use to add, save that anyone born in the Irish Free State (before 1947) has the right to a UK passport, so stating they are British may not be incorrect.

Interesting! You’re either v old and/or have some interesting knowledge

Not that old, I'm 57. But years and years ago I went out with a girl from Dublin whose mother was born before 1947 and told me that nugget of information. Not that I guess many did.

[Gary C]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

The Moose said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Nothing of use to add, save that anyone born in the Irish Free State (before 1947) has the right to a UK passport, so stating they are British may not be incorrect.

Interesting! You’re either v old and/or have some interesting knowledge

Not that old, I'm 57. But years and years ago I went out with a girl from Dublin whose mother was born before 1947 and told me that nugget of information. Not that I guess many did.

And not only that, if your grandmother was born in ireland, you can get irish citizenship (even if it was northern ireland)

Our son's girlfriend is living with him and looking at visa then residency and its much easier if she was a Irish citizen than a US citizen

But tracking down that illusive grandmother is proving to be really difficult.

Got a name, got a DOB, got a place of birth but using Ancestry's tools, cannot find anyone who matches in Irish records but I can find them landing in new york.

[GCH]

Gary C said:

I wondered on that passenger manifest if the 'travel document' number was a US document or an Irish document.

That isn't a US A# number (alien number) as it is known now, but it is probably a historic format visa/immigration number, in the Ellis Island days. Clue being they are consecutive as they were issued together when travelling together, and have 'I' for immigrant (which is still done today in parts of US visa code stuff)

The US still has all those historical records, and you can put in a FOIA request for someones A# file from USCIS if you have certain details, although the irony being that they may request some info you don't have and need the file for!
https://www.uscis.gov/records/genealogy
https://genealogy.uscis.dhs.gov/#/
https://www.uscis.gov/records/request-records-thro...

Anyway, that file - or files, as they may have two if they subsequently became citizens- should contain their full birth certificate/details, although I do know from looking at my own A# file it may be heavily redacted - not sure if that redaction is done for historic records though, but could be worth a shot.

Edited by GCH on Wednesday 11th January 16:40

[Jordie Barretts sock]

Slightly relevant, but I was adopted and wanted to trace my birth mother. I used an adoption trace agency who were brilliant.

I imagine there are similar agencies that can trace relatives, perhaps even the adoption agencies. They can work wonders with very little information. Not expensive either although i can't remember exactly what they cost.

I have no affiliation but I can 100% recommend them.

https://adoptiontrace.co.uk/

[Gary C]

There is a link on the web site for 'professional help' then boasts that this can 'start from as little as $3000' !!!!!!

Thing is, I'm trying to find an Irish birth certificate but cant find these people in Ireland which is odd to say the least.

[Gary C]

Ah

I had already found the arriving passenger list for the person of interest and her sister, but in the list, there were no parents. Had a search on the Ellis island site and it threw up the same image of the passenger list but also included another several pages earlier.

Looks like the parents weren't listed with the children which is odd.

So now I have a Francis and Mary Doran (ages 59, 52) with children Philomena & Mary (12 & 7) arriving on the same ship which seems too much a coincidence even though the mother would have been in her 40's when the children were born, but not unrealistic.

The manifest also includes those that boarded the ship but died in the crossing. History Eh

So now I need to try and find Francis and Mary Doran in Ireland.

Did my family while I was at it. Got all the way back to the 1600's with ease, they basically went nowhere.

[rigga]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Slightly relevant, but I was adopted and wanted to trace my birth mother. I used an adoption trace agency who were brilliant.

I imagine there are similar agencies that can trace relatives, perhaps even the adoption agencies. They can work wonders with very little information. Not expensive either although i can't remember exactly what they cost.

I have no affiliation but I can 100% recommend them.

https://adoptiontrace.co.uk/

Timely, as my adopted son wishes to try to trace his birth mom, so interested in that link.

[Jordie Barretts sock]

They are excellent. I cannot recommend them enough. They will find the birth mother, but will not initiate contact.

[TrotCanterGallopCharge]

Gary C said:

Ah

I had already found the arriving passenger list for the person of interest and her sister, but in the list, there were no parents. Had a search on the Ellis island site and it threw up the same image of the passenger list but also included another several pages earlier.

Looks like the parents weren't listed with the children which is odd.

So now I have a Francis and Mary Doran (ages 59, 52) with children Philomena & Mary (12 & 7) arriving on the same ship which seems too much a coincidence even though the mother would have been in her 40's when the children were born, but not unrealistic.

The manifest also includes those that boarded the ship but died in the crossing. History Eh

So now I need to try and find Francis and Mary Doran in Ireland.

Did my family while I was at it. Got all the way back to the 1600's with ease, they basically went nowhere.

I may be missing something, but how common is the surname Doran? It may well be they aren't related, or perhaps one is a Grandmother, so doesn't appear as a parent? Does your info have places of birth (or job description etc) to increase the possibility of family if from the same place (some villages are tiny). We have to remember that in the days of Empire, children were shipped off all alone back to England to go to boarding schools etc, so children travelling alone across oceans wasn't uncommon. It may be the children were sent off to America to be with relatives, with the parents possibly following later.

Sorry it doesn't help you, but may give more possible scenarios. Good luck with your search.

[liner33]

Can’t help with the OP but for others trying to trace relatives that may be alive the Salvation Army offer this service , found my dad using them , they passed on a letter my auntie had written