Commercial Lien WWYD?
Discussion
I have a non paying customer. The debt is just under £20k stretching back to September 2022. The background is I worked for the business happily for a couple of years then in November the company was sold to new owners & payments stopped. I know the new owners are well financed & if I'm honest, my hunch is more cock up than conspiracy however, I am where I am. I wrote to them last week demanding payment withiin seven days, they didn't repsond & so I have issued a claim against them.
They appear unaware of this (claim issued Monday,so possibly not delivered yet) & have offered me subsequent work. I am tempted to take the job off them (it will be 26 pallets of crisps for delivery & has a decent value) and hold it until my bills are paid. I have already written them off as a client, so don't care either way if I lose them. So my choices are tell them to stick it & carry on with legals which could be drawn out & although I am in the right & can prove the debts are genuine could still go either way or take the job & hold them to ransom. What would you do?
They appear unaware of this (claim issued Monday,so possibly not delivered yet) & have offered me subsequent work. I am tempted to take the job off them (it will be 26 pallets of crisps for delivery & has a decent value) and hold it until my bills are paid. I have already written them off as a client, so don't care either way if I lose them. So my choices are tell them to stick it & carry on with legals which could be drawn out & although I am in the right & can prove the debts are genuine could still go either way or take the job & hold them to ransom. What would you do?
Edited by President Merkin on Thursday 12th January 10:53
We had this will an employee of a company who was a complete jobsworth. We sent in a claim addressed to the director and it was paid the next day. It may be that the directors are just unaware of this but it's £20k of your money they are withholding
Don't do any more work for them. Wait until money is paid back and see how the land lies then. If it is genuine mistake you may be able to cautiously continue.
Don't do any more work for them. Wait until money is paid back and see how the land lies then. If it is genuine mistake you may be able to cautiously continue.
wheelerc said:
"They appear unaware of this (claim issued Monday,so possibly not delivered yet) & have offered me subsequent work."
Why not reply to the offer stating that you would like to accept once your outstanding invoices have been settled?
Because we did exactly this with our operational contact last week. They promised to expedite matters with the accounts guys whom we wrote to ten days ago demanding payment or else withiin seven days, following months of payment requests. Our attitude now is a golden opportunity has fallen into our lap, there is a disconnect between ops & finance their end, so I have arranged to get this load in wheels Monday morning & as soon as I have, the MD is getting a call from me, laying out the choices before him.Why not reply to the offer stating that you would like to accept once your outstanding invoices have been settled?
President Merkin said:
I have a non paying customer. The debt is just under £20k stretching back to September 2022. The background is I worked for the business happily for a couple of years then in November the company was sold to new owners & payments stopped. I know the new owners are well financed & if I'm honest, my hunch is more cock up than conspiracy however, I am where I am. I wrote to them last week demanding payment withiin seven days, they didn't repsond & so I have issued a claim against them.
They appear unaware of this (claim issued Monday,so possibly not delivered yet) & have offered me subsequent work. I am tempted to take the job off them (it will be 26 pallets of crisps for delivery & has a decent value) and hold it until my bills are paid. I have already written them off as a client, so don't care either way if I lose them. So my choices are tell them to stick it & carry on with legals which could be drawn out & although I am in the right & can prove the debts are genuine could still go either way or take the job & hold them to ransom. What would you do?
When you say a claim, is there any dispute on the amount owed? If not then a Statutory Demand would be better, quicker, and focus the mind in most circumstances.They appear unaware of this (claim issued Monday,so possibly not delivered yet) & have offered me subsequent work. I am tempted to take the job off them (it will be 26 pallets of crisps for delivery & has a decent value) and hold it until my bills are paid. I have already written them off as a client, so don't care either way if I lose them. So my choices are tell them to stick it & carry on with legals which could be drawn out & although I am in the right & can prove the debts are genuine could still go either way or take the job & hold them to ransom. What would you do?
Edited by President Merkin on Thursday 12th January 10:53
If you have filed a claim, don't forget that will be outside of the small claims track, so costs become a potential issue. Sometimes it is better to claim for the earlier invoices (under £10k), and then claim (if needed) for the next batch of invoices (under £10k) and so on
But it sounds like there's no dispute here, so back to the Stat Demand route.President Merkin said:
Because we did exactly this with our operational contact last week. They promised to expedite matters with the accounts guys whom we wrote to ten days ago demanding payment or else withiin seven days, following months of payment requests. Our attitude now is a golden opportunity has fallen into our lap, there is a disconnect between ops & finance their end, so I have arranged to get this load in wheels Monday morning & as soon as I have, the MD is getting a call from me, laying out the choices before him.
Surely that will be theft and then holding at ransom which I’m sure won’t do you any favours??Why not do the work and start charging more for the services to recoup your money back
skwdenyer said:
When you say a claim, is there any dispute on the amount owed? If not then a Statutory Demand would be better, quicker, and focus the mind in most circumstances.
If you have filed a claim, don't forget that will be outside of the small claims track, so costs become a potential issue. Sometimes it is better to claim for the earlier invoices (under £10k), and then claim (if needed) for the next batch of invoices (under £10k) and so on But it sounds like there's no dispute here, so back to the Stat Demand route.
Have done stat demand in the past, quick & effective but you very much need your ducks in a row before embarking on that path. Small claims as a specific thing doesn't really exist now. Mcol categorically is available for debts above 10k, you pay 5% of the claim beyond 10k, so need to do the sums before deciding which way to go. There is a separate county court service specifically for claims under 10K but Mcol wlll also cover those, so good old government efficiency.If you have filed a claim, don't forget that will be outside of the small claims track, so costs become a potential issue. Sometimes it is better to claim for the earlier invoices (under £10k), and then claim (if needed) for the next batch of invoices (under £10k) and so on
But it sounds like there's no dispute here, so back to the Stat Demand route.ghost83 said:
Surely that will be theft and then holding at ransom which I’m sure won’t do you any favours??
Why not do the work and start charging more for the services to recoup your money back
A five minute Google on general & particular lien would have helped you. Taking posession of the clients goods is the point. It is lawful provided various conditions are met and they were met, not least of which we trade with all customers under RHA terms & conditions that we require customers to sign. The right to exercise liens forms a contract term. Pay your bills or we sell your stuff. And it's naive to suggest upping rates to cover unpaid debts if a customer has no intention of paying debts. Fantasy revenue.Why not do the work and start charging more for the services to recoup your money back
In the event, we collected the load, phoned the MD straight after & set out the issues, suggested one resolution could be a lien. We were paid on the spot fully up to date, with an apology so let's see where it goes from here. If I were them, I'd sack me off but they're making contrite noises. Maybe we stay together, I don't know.
Edited by President Merkin on Wednesday 18th January 16:46
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