Ice, Ice, Liability Question

[saladdays]

I recently lost traction driving down this incline.



Water leaks when the washing machine or dishwasher is used. It's been going on for years. Sometimes the icy patch is bigger and rutted. If I crashed my car. Who would be liable? Do car insurers engage with property owners? Any opinions?

[BertBert]

The question will be whether it is negligent or not. From a person on the street perspective, if it's been going on for years then you would think so. However from debates on the topic on here before it seems that it's quite hard to legally show householder negligence.

Good job you would have the experts on your side (insurance company)!

[Countdown]

Would the Occupiers Liability Act not apply?

https://becket-chambers.co.uk/2020/03/04/occupiers...

[BertBert]

Would seem to be for "visitors". On that basis, no unless the OP contrives to be a visitor!

[GasEngineer]

saladdays said:

I recently lost traction driving down this incline.



Water leaks when the washing machine or dishwasher is used. It's been going on for years. Sometimes the icy patch is bigger and rutted. If I crashed my car. Who would be liable? Do car insurers engage with property owners? Any opinions?

How is it known that a dishwasher or washing machine causes that?

[DodgyGeezer]

Surely the householder could/would argue that

- if you know there's a history of leakage in that area you should be prepared for it
- if it's bloody cold you should drive appropriately & be aware of the potential for ice

I'd imagine that a pedestrian slipping there would be far more likely to see action taken/get a result?

[Bill]

saladdays said:

It's been going on for years.

Have you approached the householder?

[stemll]

Water company may be interested if that is draining into the surface water drain on the street

Would answer the liability question but, if they are made to stop it leaking, then the question goes away.

Edited by stemll on Tuesday 17th January 12:53

[saladdays]

It's not rainwater as it happens when it's dry. The water leaks out for an hour or so then dries up. Likely a washing machine.

I've not approached the householder as I don't live closer enough. I think if I was a neighbour then I would raise the subject.

[stemll]

If your reply was directed to me then I wasn't suggesting that it was rainwater. My point is that it is illegal to drain foul water into a rainwater drain and, if that is happening, the water company can enforce it being fixed.

[Bill]

saladdays said:

It's not rainwater as it happens when it's dry. The water leaks out for an hour or so then dries up. Likely a washing machine.

I've not approached the householder as I don't live closer enough. I think if I was a neighbour then I would raise the subject.

But you see it often enough to know the pattern.

I have no idea how it'd go if you crashed, but if it's cold you ought to expect ice so I'd assume it's on the driver. If it's happening that often it's an environmental issue anyway so should be reported if you CBA having a word.

[saladdays]

Here's an old picture from Google Street View. The water leaks out via a retaining wall weep hole directly below the inspection cover.



My question is who would pay if two cars crashed on an icy hill in dry weather?

[E-bmw]

EmailAddress said:

Perhaps another way to look at it is the old Farmer putting mud on the road scenario. At a certain point they become liable. But where is the tipping point...

Not being argumentative, but I don't think they do.

It is the job of the driver to assess the road conditions & drive suitably.

Could be wrong.

[IJWS15]

This ^^

Too many people looking to blame someone else for their inability to deal with a known hazard. If you know there may be ice drive slowly.

[OutInTheShed]

One might think the highway authority is at fault, because the water runs across the road not along the gutter.
Or maybe it's a water company drainage responsibility?
Has anyone notified them?

If the water was from a washing machine or dishwasher, I'd expect it to be less clear?
It's probably running out of the bank because the house was badly built?

Around the South West, there are a few thousand places where water runs across the road.

[Roger Irrelevant]

E-bmw said:

Could be wrong.

You are. As well as being potentially liable in negligence, there's sections 148 and 161 of the Highways Act 1980 to consider. s.148 deals with mud in particular, and s.161 says:

If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, deposits any thing whatsoever on a highway in consequence of which a user of the highway is injured or endangered, that person is guilty of an offence...

Unsurprisingly, the general rule is that you can't just strew stuff over the road, be it mud, ice, or whatever, and then wash your hands of responsibility by saying 'well there might sometimes be hazards on the road, so it's up to people to look out for them.' I would expect that if that was coming from something like a washing machine not draining away properly, and if the person from whose property that water came knew that it was happening (not difficult to prove if it had been going on for a long time), then they'd be very likely to be liable for any accident that occurred as a result.

Edited by Roger Irrelevant on Tuesday 17th January 14:09

[Yellow Lizud]

saladdays said:

If I crashed my car. Who would be liable?

You've answered your own question in your own opening post.

[TGCOTF-dewey]

When you lost traction where you Rollin' in your 5.0 with your rag-top down so your hair can blow?

[Pica-Pica]

How about roof guttering down-pipes that have an angled outlet at pavement level, that allows the roof water to flow across a slight depression in the pavement into the road? They are very, very common.

[RATATTAK]

Pica-Pica said:

How about roof guttering down-pipes that have an angled outlet at pavement level, that allows the roof water to flow across a slight depression in the pavement into the road? They are very, very common.

Used to be allowed but not now under planning law.