993 suspension

[Adom]

Right then, my '96 c2 has done 65k miles and is on original dampers with standard suspension. No leaking as such but they are nearly 10 year old dampers and need replacing. Whilst I'm doing those, I may as well uprate the suspension from the current 'paris-dakar' set up. Question is, what do I uprate to? I am inclined to simply go to factory sports springs and dampers, but wonder whether there are any other products that would do a better job without incurring massive expense.

I don't want the car sitting on the floor and I do most driving on british roads. Whilst anticipating doing the odd trackday, I still want a decent level of compliance. Any suggestions?

Just one more thing, do people tend to find it worth replacing bushes etc whilst its all apart, especially given the cars age? Also, approx prices would be welcome.

cheers,
Adam

[verysideways]

The standard answer here is usually PSS-9, which gives you the flexibility to go for the track spec or the road spec or anything in between. A very adjustable package, and i think everyone who has it is happy (all things to all men?).

Downside? Cost... something like £1.5k with fitting and set up i think.

[spenny_b]

The RennList'ers are looking to do a PSS-9 Group Buy, plus I think 969 Motorsports are doing them at something like $1990 plus tax plus shipping....*may* work out cheaper?...Anyways go to http://forums.rennlist.com/ then Watercooled>996 and the threads there (URL doesn't appear to show up for the thread, for some reason)

Edited to say:...I know we're talking a 993 here....just that the threads in the 996 section

>> Edited by spenny_b on Friday 19th August 12:55

[silver993tt]

You could also go for Bilstein HD's as I did on my 993tt. Cost was about £600 plus fitting. Huge improvement over the originals. Can also be hight adjusted during fitting. Maybe you should also get some M030 springs to lower the car to the standard hight of the Turbo bodied cars.

[nel]

You comment that you don't want the car to be too low after the upgrade. In that case I'd advise you against the PSS9 set-up (that I chose) as, though it it is height adjustable, the highest setting is effectively the M030 ride height, so pretty damned low. (M030 is 30 mm lower than the standard ride height).

I love my car as it is with the PSS9 kit, but you really don't want to drive through potholes with it, even on the softest shock absorber setting!

[Adom]

Interesting comment, can you tell me whether the M030 springs are the factory sports springs? My brother's car has these and I didn't think it was a full 30mm lower.

Sounds like the PSS9 setup may be unnecessary for my use.

[Henry-F]

Speak to Steve Winter at Jaz in Wembley. He has a good understanding of spring rates and damper settings. He is also very good on brake pad options. Years of Porsche racing have stood him in good stead, but he also realises you want the car to drive on the road. He ran my 993 race car before I got the GT3 and still runs 993`s now.

It`s like getting a good haircut, make sure you tell the barber exactly what you want.

Henry

[nel]

Adom said:

..can you tell me whether the M030 springs are the factory sports springs?

The M030 suspension was standard on the 993 turbo. The ride height is obviously determined by the spring length, and can be increased a limited amount by shimming at the fitting stage. The 30 mm difference is misleading - as you can see from the figures below it is nominally the combined differences front and rear. (All the figures below are plus/minus 10mm in any case).

...............Front......Rear
Standard.....154.......147
M030..........144.......127
RS..............124.......107

My 993TT had the M030 suspension but with very tired shock absorbers. After looking into the options I went for the PSS9 kit and have no regrets given the composure and poise of the vehicle now - it was transformed! A big plus of the PSS9 kit is the ability to harden up the shockers for a trackday (though I haven't done that to my 993TT yet - in my opinion they're too heavy for that and I want to buy something else as a track toy).

But the maximum ride height setting with the PSS9 kit yields heights of around 130 and 110, so pretty close to the RS and substantially lower than the standard car if that is an issue for you. You might be better off just freshening up your suspension with new shock absorbers but keeping the same springs - given the state of British roads....

[Adom]

Is your PSS9 set on the highest level nel?

I think it sounds like MO30 will be right for me. The car needs new dampers no doubt, but could do with it being a tad firmer so I might as well uprate whilst the suspension is in bits.

Certainly driving my brothers car with new dampers and (seemingly) MO30, it is a revelation to my somewhat wallowy machine.

Thanks for all your help.

[silver993tt]

I think the Bilstein HD's would suit you just fine if you're not doing too many track days

[Adom]

silver993tt said:

I think the Bilstein HD's would suit you just fine if you're not doing too many track days

what is the advantage over the standard items apart from the adjustability? £600 seems cheap for 4 dampers.

[nel]

Yep - I set it at the highest level. I suppose persons living in areas with no speed bumps and billiard board surfaces would rachet it down lower, but in the real world somewhere between the M0303 and the RS settings are about as low as I'd want my porker to be.

If you don't need the damper adjustability (which I haven't yet!) then the H&S option mentioned above might be the cheaper yet satisfactory way to go. Worth searching the Rennlist forums for more info.

For your info I paid about £1050 for the PSS9 kit from Carnewal and fitted it myself. I still had to have the alignment and corner weights set up professionally afterwards so another £150ish went to a good independent. Also, if you lower the car I'd strongly recommend the stainless steel front protection bar from Carnewal too - fitted in 5 minutes and has saved the front lower face of my PU nose cone from numerous scrapes.

Have fun!

[johnny senna]

Adom,

Considering how tipsy you were last night I can't believe you are asking technical questions today. Aren't you hungover like a dog?

[phelix]

silver993tt said:

You could also go for Bilstein HD's as I did on my 993tt. Cost was about £600 plus fitting. Huge improvement over the originals. Can also be hight adjusted during fitting. Maybe you should also get some M030 springs to lower the car to the standard hight of the Turbo bodied cars.

Did the very same. If you have no track day plans this is a good set-up. And good enough for the odd track day.

A proper alignment is required as well.

[phelix]

Adom said:

silver993tt said: I think the Bilstein HD's would suit you just fine if you're not doing too many track days what is the advantage over the standard items apart from the adjustability? £600 seems cheap for 4 dampers.

The adjustability is in being able to fine tune the ride height.

It seems that most 993tt's have knackered Monroe (OEM) shocks so a quality replacement like a Bilstein transforms the car. My car felt a bit floaty and was very nervous after turning in and seemed to take a while before it settled down in a turn. Fast corners on a bumpy road were not confidence inspiring. The new shocks transformed the car making it much more predictable and stable and improved the ride. Go figure!

I've yet to hear of any one who has regretted replacing the factory shocks. As Henry says, make sure you make the right choice as far as what you replace it with.

[james_j]

...also, if you think you need adjustable, like PSS9, make sure you really plan to adjust it now and then.

Otherwise, you may end up finding that you find a compromise setting you are happy with and leave it at that, never again adjusting anything. (A state which could be arrived at my a non-adjustable set up.)

[Porschetastic]

If you're not worried about adjustability, then I would suggest an H&R up-grade kit. Had my 993 done and the handling has been absolutely transformed. Hugs the corners, smoothes out the bumps AND is still very comfortable. Strikes me as a great compromise.

Dave

[993_2s]

Porschetastic said:

If you're not worried about adjustability, then I would suggest an H&R up-grade kit. Had my 993 done and the handling has been absolutely transformed. Hugs the corners, smoothes out the bumps AND is still very comfortable. Strikes me as a great compromise. Dave

Which H&R kit is this Dave? Do you have any more details? I've run H&R suspension on previous cars and always been very impressed.

[Porschetastic]

993_2s said:

Porschetastic said: If you're not worried about adjustability, then I would suggest an H&R up-grade kit. Had my 993 done and the handling has been absolutely transformed. Hugs the corners, smoothes out the bumps AND is still very comfortable. Strikes me as a great compromise. Dave Which H&R kit is this Dave? Do you have any more details? I've run H&R suspension on previous cars and always been very impressed.

I think it was a coilover kit, but check with 9M who supplied and fitted it for me.

Dave

[993_2s]

That'll be good. I ran my Corrado VR6 on H&R coilovers and was very impressed with them.