Small hot hatch options
Discussion
Last week I posted about sub £20k roadsters which may still be a possibility although looking like a long shot. After conversations with swmbo it seems that 2 seats really are deeply unpopular and would require quite a few compromises. Maybe the timing isn’t right but you never know.
I have other options which I flit between but there’s no real rush to be honest. One of those options is to just go for another hot hatch.
I mention ‘small’ hot hatches as I’m more into light weight and chuckable fun than outright power. Larger hatches are getting too much like family cars for me which I don’t want. They’re also more expensive to buy and run and I’m not convinced there’s much benefit. My current mk7.5 Fiesta ST3 has been brilliant for the last 3 years and is a hard act to follow IMO. I often think I should just keep it and would regret selling it. The only things I’m not too keen on are the dated interior, bouncy ride and high seating position but I can forgive it all those things for its superb value and grin factor. The next car needs to be an upgrade or there’s no point.
I’ve ruled out an Abarth 595. Went to look at one last week and I feel it shares those same fiesta problems, perhaps even more so, and they’re expensive for what they are. Characterful maybe but not for me. So here are 5 other choices and I’d be interested to hear opinions and experiences.
Top of the tree is a Hyundai i20N. I absolutely fell for these when they came out and it seems to be highly rated. I’d love one. Only problem is they’re still well over £20k. I could buy one but I feel it’ll lose a lot of money in the next 3 years and I suppose I could always go for something cheaper this time, then the Hyundai next.
Obvious choice is a mk8 ST.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211171...
It seems to improve on the areas I’d change about the mk7. I do find it a bit annoying that it’s £16k at 3 years old when I paid just £9k for mine but that’s life. Also it feels a bit of a cop out to get another Fiesta maybe.
At the cheaper end would be a 208 GTI by PS.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209169...
Again I’ve always liked these. I don’t think I’d lose a lot and they are quite rare. Perhaps not a big step up from my ST but it is different and sometimes a change is as good as anything.
Another rarity is the Yaris GRMN.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212282...
Okay so I’m not entirely sure about the stickers and the looks. And I know that everyone will tell me it isn’t a GRY, but then it is cheaper. Not cheap though compared to the Pug although it’s rarity may secure its values. I like Jap stuff, especially Toyotas.
Then somewhere in between would be the Mini JCW.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301143...
Never had a Mini. Performance looks good as does the quality. Possibly the least interesting and I’m not sure if they come with proper BMW maintenance costs.
So where would you put your money in the current climate?
I have other options which I flit between but there’s no real rush to be honest. One of those options is to just go for another hot hatch.
I mention ‘small’ hot hatches as I’m more into light weight and chuckable fun than outright power. Larger hatches are getting too much like family cars for me which I don’t want. They’re also more expensive to buy and run and I’m not convinced there’s much benefit. My current mk7.5 Fiesta ST3 has been brilliant for the last 3 years and is a hard act to follow IMO. I often think I should just keep it and would regret selling it. The only things I’m not too keen on are the dated interior, bouncy ride and high seating position but I can forgive it all those things for its superb value and grin factor. The next car needs to be an upgrade or there’s no point.
I’ve ruled out an Abarth 595. Went to look at one last week and I feel it shares those same fiesta problems, perhaps even more so, and they’re expensive for what they are. Characterful maybe but not for me. So here are 5 other choices and I’d be interested to hear opinions and experiences.
Top of the tree is a Hyundai i20N. I absolutely fell for these when they came out and it seems to be highly rated. I’d love one. Only problem is they’re still well over £20k. I could buy one but I feel it’ll lose a lot of money in the next 3 years and I suppose I could always go for something cheaper this time, then the Hyundai next.
Obvious choice is a mk8 ST.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211171...
It seems to improve on the areas I’d change about the mk7. I do find it a bit annoying that it’s £16k at 3 years old when I paid just £9k for mine but that’s life. Also it feels a bit of a cop out to get another Fiesta maybe.
At the cheaper end would be a 208 GTI by PS.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209169...
Again I’ve always liked these. I don’t think I’d lose a lot and they are quite rare. Perhaps not a big step up from my ST but it is different and sometimes a change is as good as anything.
Another rarity is the Yaris GRMN.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212282...
Okay so I’m not entirely sure about the stickers and the looks. And I know that everyone will tell me it isn’t a GRY, but then it is cheaper. Not cheap though compared to the Pug although it’s rarity may secure its values. I like Jap stuff, especially Toyotas.
Then somewhere in between would be the Mini JCW.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301143...
Never had a Mini. Performance looks good as does the quality. Possibly the least interesting and I’m not sure if they come with proper BMW maintenance costs.
So where would you put your money in the current climate?
All great cars and I don't think you can really go too wrong with any of them.
Mini or the Fiesta might be an easier sell to the Mrs. The Yaris GRMN is a fantastic thing with that 1.8 supercharged motor. The 208s are good, perhaps some reservations with the Prince motor in them - try and go for the newest, lowest mileage one you can afford.
Mini or the Fiesta might be an easier sell to the Mrs. The Yaris GRMN is a fantastic thing with that 1.8 supercharged motor. The 208s are good, perhaps some reservations with the Prince motor in them - try and go for the newest, lowest mileage one you can afford.
She’d be okay with any as long as they have back seats. Our son is only 7 so doesn’t require much head or leg room. He’s happy enough in the fiesta. She’s only driven it once in 3 years so that’s not a concern.
The Toyota is very interesting. I’ve never seen one on the road, unlike the GRY which actually seems fairly common. The decals are a bit loud but I’d keep them for that standard look. I’ve enjoyed two sporty Toyotas in the past so that is a draw, and I guess it would benefit from that service/warranty scheme they do which is useful as we have a good local dealership. Pricing is steep but they always were. Hard to know how it’ll hold up or how easy it’ll be to move on later.
The Toyota is very interesting. I’ve never seen one on the road, unlike the GRY which actually seems fairly common. The decals are a bit loud but I’d keep them for that standard look. I’ve enjoyed two sporty Toyotas in the past so that is a draw, and I guess it would benefit from that service/warranty scheme they do which is useful as we have a good local dealership. Pricing is steep but they always were. Hard to know how it’ll hold up or how easy it’ll be to move on later.
I could have written a very similar post. Sold my SLK55 last year and need a new toy soon.
I wouldn’t rule the 595 out though. I had one for a couple of years and took it over the Alps twice. Loved it, and it is definitely a contender for next toy.
Cant get excited by the Fiesta. I’m sure it’s a brilliant car, but not of interest to me.
The GRMN is very interesting however. Rarity has its downsides though and some of the bespoke bits are not cheap. Rear exhaust system is £4.5k as an example!it is a Toyota so maybe that doesn’t matter.
Pretty much everyone who has has an Up! GTi raves about them. Only 115PS but if you can drive it flat out everywhere does that matter
Hope you find an answer!
I wouldn’t rule the 595 out though. I had one for a couple of years and took it over the Alps twice. Loved it, and it is definitely a contender for next toy.
Cant get excited by the Fiesta. I’m sure it’s a brilliant car, but not of interest to me.
The GRMN is very interesting however. Rarity has its downsides though and some of the bespoke bits are not cheap. Rear exhaust system is £4.5k as an example!it is a Toyota so maybe that doesn’t matter.
Pretty much everyone who has has an Up! GTi raves about them. Only 115PS but if you can drive it flat out everywhere does that matter
Hope you find an answer!
I didn’t get to drive the 595 as I just turned up at the dealers. Sat in it and started up though, it was a Comp 70th with the record monza. Sounded great but loud, I’m sure my neighbours would love me defrosting it at 6:30am! I couldn’t get on with the driving position though really.
Canon_Fodder said:
OP the Mini has a great driving position - really low in the car - and is very agile.
Worth a test drive if you've never had one
Yes I'll certainly try one.Worth a test drive if you've never had one
Any thoughts on wheels? Some have 18s and others 17s. I'd definitely want non run flats and actually prefer the look of the black 17s like the car I linked.
Looks like the local Mini dealer have a JCW on 17s that I could try. It's not the right spec, colour or price though but worth driving.
Finding the right options seems tricky with Mini.
I've also noticed these on my searches.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023010329...
I do like that. A few of those face-lift Cooper S Sports have the options I like. That one in particular with the pan roof, jcw seats (heated) and the same wheels. Good colour too. I do wonder if they're better value than the JCW.
Finding the right options seems tricky with Mini.
I've also noticed these on my searches.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023010329...
I do like that. A few of those face-lift Cooper S Sports have the options I like. That one in particular with the pan roof, jcw seats (heated) and the same wheels. Good colour too. I do wonder if they're better value than the JCW.
ChrisH72 said:
Top of the tree is a Hyundai i20N. I absolutely fell for these when they came out and it seems to be highly rated. I’d love one. Only problem is they’re still well over £20k. I could buy one but I feel it’ll lose a lot of money in the next 3 years and I suppose I could always go for something cheaper this time, then the Hyundai next.
I'm not sure you'll lose loads.A few years back you'd expect to lose 50% in three years on most cars, but times are very different now.
How many hot hatches like this will be available to buy new in the coming years?
Fiesta ST coming to an end, as well as many others?
I'll guess if these are kept in good order they'll not drop much below 20k for low mileage ones, for quite some time.
I think the i20N would be the one I'd go for if the GR Yaris was out of reach.
I really don't want to be one of those people who obsess about resale value but with prices now being what they are it's become the done thing. Obviously I've run all those cars through the AT valuation with surprising results. It's actually the Fiesta which has the least difference between asking price and private sale price although I think the rarity of cars like the GRMN make them hard to value accurately. Ultimately I've done well with the current car which should be worth about a grand less than I paid so it's fair enough.
GRY isn't completely out of reach. It's just that I've drawn a bit of a line at £20k as anything more seems ridiculous for a small hatch. At a minimum of £30k the GRY is competing with some very nice machines (M2 anybody?) So it's difficult to justify.
An i20N could actually be a keeper because, as you say, it's hard to imagine what else would be worth buying 3 years from now.
I should be able to drive both Mini and Fiesta locally without much trouble. Same with the Hyundai as there are a couple nearby. The 208PS and Yaris may be harder but I would like to try them before committing to anything.
GRY isn't completely out of reach. It's just that I've drawn a bit of a line at £20k as anything more seems ridiculous for a small hatch. At a minimum of £30k the GRY is competing with some very nice machines (M2 anybody?) So it's difficult to justify.
An i20N could actually be a keeper because, as you say, it's hard to imagine what else would be worth buying 3 years from now.
I should be able to drive both Mini and Fiesta locally without much trouble. Same with the Hyundai as there are a couple nearby. The 208PS and Yaris may be harder but I would like to try them before committing to anything.
ChrisH72 said:
I do like that. A few of those face-lift Cooper S Sports have the options I like. That one in particular with the pan roof, jcw seats (heated) and the same wheels. Good colour too. I do wonder if they're better value than the JCW.
Yes I think that's a better bet. The JCW seats are terrific so that's a good option to haveHere are some alternates.
For me the Clio RS220 Trophy is a car worthy of at least a test drive:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210281...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301143...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301093...
DS3 Performance a very good car & cracking value:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212032...
If you like the Mini then the S1 Competition is surely worth a look too:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211131...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207308...
S1:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111049...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211282...
Truly leftfield is the Kia Soul 200 I wouldn't call it the sharpest steer but it's different:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301073...
For me the Clio RS220 Trophy is a car worthy of at least a test drive:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210281...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301143...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301093...
DS3 Performance a very good car & cracking value:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212032...
If you like the Mini then the S1 Competition is surely worth a look too:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211131...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207308...
S1:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111049...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211282...
Truly leftfield is the Kia Soul 200 I wouldn't call it the sharpest steer but it's different:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301073...
Some interesting alternatives thanks.
Prefer to keep a manual box for these kind of cars.
I'd completely forgotten about the S1 and had thought they were overpriced. But that blue Competition is on a par with a mini really. I like that you can get Quattro with a manual. What's the difference with the Competition over a regular S1?
Prefer to keep a manual box for these kind of cars.
I'd completely forgotten about the S1 and had thought they were overpriced. But that blue Competition is on a par with a mini really. I like that you can get Quattro with a manual. What's the difference with the Competition over a regular S1?
The 208GTI by Peugeot Sport is a serious wee bit of kit.
It’s a step up from the usual 208GTI Prestige’s in terms of performance.
Engines are brilliant it’s only the ones in the Mini that went boom.
https://youtu.be/9GCWiRSSBiY
It’s a step up from the usual 208GTI Prestige’s in terms of performance.
Engines are brilliant it’s only the ones in the Mini that went boom.
https://youtu.be/9GCWiRSSBiY
Canon_Fodder said:
OP the Mini has a great driving position - really low in the car - and is very agile.
Worth a test drive if you've never had one
Low driving position? What compared to a Range Rover maybe.... Worth a test drive if you've never had one
I quite like the MINI's, but no way can you call it a low driving position IMO.
The autobox is horrid though, gearing way too long and ruins you being able to use the best of the engine. Not sure on the gearing of the manual ones. Fake engine noise is about the worst thing I've ever experienced in any car too. Fit and finish is nice and general build and driving.
CG2020UK said:
The 208GTI by Peugeot Sport is a serious wee bit of kit.
It’s a step up from the usual 208GTI Prestige’s in terms of performance.
Engines are brilliant it’s only the ones in the Mini that went boom.
https://youtu.be/9GCWiRSSBiY
I'd love to try one. The DS3 performance is mechanically similar but I've always liked the way the pug looks. Before I bought the Fiesta I did drive a 208 Prestige. It was fine but sadly the dealer insisted I followed him on a short prescribed route where I couldn't really try it out. With the Ford they pointed me in the direction of an excellent B road and said bring it back in half an hour. Sold!! Shows how much the test drive counts for, at least for me. I found the Fiesta more sporty in general than the 208 but the seats do make a difference. I like the seats in the PS but at the time they were out of budget. It’s a step up from the usual 208GTI Prestige’s in terms of performance.
Engines are brilliant it’s only the ones in the Mini that went boom.
https://youtu.be/9GCWiRSSBiY
I noticed the comment on expensive bespoke parts for the Yaris GRMN. Does the 208 by PS suffer from the same? I've only had to replace tyres and brakes on the ST. The front brakes were less than £200 which is dirt cheap.
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