Rented Property & Damp Issues
Discussion
Rather than writing an essay, I will summarise with chronological bullet points.
We recently viewed a property with a view to renting it. During the visit, there was decoration taking place and the property smelt of paint and decorating materials. However, we liked it.
We signed the tennancy and paid deposit and months rent. Collected the keys and visited with the inventory document to check all was well.
Opening the door, it was evident he property had a strong musty odour. There was condensation on most window sills. Some cupboards were damp inside and also smelt musty. The inventory document also mentioned cupboards smelling musty (third party inspector). We suspected a potential damp issue and contacted the letting agency.
During this time we visited every day and had doors & windows wide open trying to vent the property. The overall mustiness did recede a little, but not in the cupboards. The heating was on low 16C.
We paid for a damp inspection to be done on the property while the agents were deliberating with landlords. The inspection proved areas of dampness and samples taked for mould analysis were positive. All roof ventilation had been sealed with insulation panels and expanding foam. The chimney had been blocked and a number of airbricks were also blocked. it appears that in over insulating the property, they had created their own damp problem.
The landlords eventually agreed we could "walk away" from the tennancy, but havent returned all the prepaid rent, but did return deposit.
Their arguement is "you were there for 8 days, we couldnt rent it to anyone else".
Our arguement is "the house is damp, we couldnt move in because it was unfit for purpose and we have obtained independent professional proof to back this statement".
I am about to write a letter before action to reclaim the unreturned rent and cost of damp inspection report.
How would you rate our chances if it went to court?
We recently viewed a property with a view to renting it. During the visit, there was decoration taking place and the property smelt of paint and decorating materials. However, we liked it.
We signed the tennancy and paid deposit and months rent. Collected the keys and visited with the inventory document to check all was well.
Opening the door, it was evident he property had a strong musty odour. There was condensation on most window sills. Some cupboards were damp inside and also smelt musty. The inventory document also mentioned cupboards smelling musty (third party inspector). We suspected a potential damp issue and contacted the letting agency.
During this time we visited every day and had doors & windows wide open trying to vent the property. The overall mustiness did recede a little, but not in the cupboards. The heating was on low 16C.
We paid for a damp inspection to be done on the property while the agents were deliberating with landlords. The inspection proved areas of dampness and samples taked for mould analysis were positive. All roof ventilation had been sealed with insulation panels and expanding foam. The chimney had been blocked and a number of airbricks were also blocked. it appears that in over insulating the property, they had created their own damp problem.
The landlords eventually agreed we could "walk away" from the tennancy, but havent returned all the prepaid rent, but did return deposit.
Their arguement is "you were there for 8 days, we couldnt rent it to anyone else".
Our arguement is "the house is damp, we couldnt move in because it was unfit for purpose and we have obtained independent professional proof to back this statement".
I am about to write a letter before action to reclaim the unreturned rent and cost of damp inspection report.
How would you rate our chances if it went to court?
Sorry a lot of questions to answer fully!
Are they holding a months rent? How much roughly they holding? more than a week?
Did the inspection state the cause of the damp was rising damp, penetrating damp??
Leaky or Ingress of water causing it?
Did the report state the property was not fit for habitation? In order to prove that you will need to meet the following;
>affect your health seriously
>put you at risk of physical harm or injury
>mean you cannot make full use of your home
Did the landlord offer to repair the issue? Timeframe if they did?
I would state if they are holding 7-8 days money walk away a claim is going to costs £250 I would recon to file if you have clear proof it was not fit for.
If the outstanding monies is over 1k its not a small claim.
If its a full month and you meet the above it might be worth pursuing, but it all depends. You did view the property and agree at that stage.
Are they holding a months rent? How much roughly they holding? more than a week?
Did the inspection state the cause of the damp was rising damp, penetrating damp??
Leaky or Ingress of water causing it?
Did the report state the property was not fit for habitation? In order to prove that you will need to meet the following;
>affect your health seriously
>put you at risk of physical harm or injury
>mean you cannot make full use of your home
Did the landlord offer to repair the issue? Timeframe if they did?
I would state if they are holding 7-8 days money walk away a claim is going to costs £250 I would recon to file if you have clear proof it was not fit for.
If the outstanding monies is over 1k its not a small claim.
If its a full month and you meet the above it might be worth pursuing, but it all depends. You did view the property and agree at that stage.
Sir Bagalot said:
Did the tenancy actually start? Did you have keys?
Damp report? I'd say zero chance of getting that cost back
Yeh the tenancy started they had the keys based on the op post, they tried to air the property, it sounds like they never lived in it.Damp report? I'd say zero chance of getting that cost back
I would try and get back 2-3 weeks monies and move on, on the plus side you don't pay fees anymore, thy landlord is savvy gave the deposit back but kept the rent monies.
In total, it was 8 days rent they witheld.
There was rising damp on a back wall where an air brick had been covered by a concrete patio.
Most of the moisture was from where all ventilation in the building had been blocked in an attempt to improve insulation. Internal humidity readings were over 70% in places.
The toxicity samples showed elevated levels of Aspergillus and Cladosporium. (girlfriend is sensitive to respiratory conditions).
The landlord was not prepared to remediate the issues, although we asked for this first.
Due to dampness we did not feel we could make full use of the house and this is our arguement.
There was rising damp on a back wall where an air brick had been covered by a concrete patio.
Most of the moisture was from where all ventilation in the building had been blocked in an attempt to improve insulation. Internal humidity readings were over 70% in places.
The toxicity samples showed elevated levels of Aspergillus and Cladosporium. (girlfriend is sensitive to respiratory conditions).
The landlord was not prepared to remediate the issues, although we asked for this first.
Due to dampness we did not feel we could make full use of the house and this is our arguement.
808 Estate said:
In total, it was 8 days rent they witheld.
There was rising damp on a back wall where an air brick had been covered by a concrete patio.
Most of the moisture was from where all ventilation in the building had been blocked in an attempt to improve insulation. Internal humidity readings were over 70% in places.
The toxicity samples showed elevated levels of Aspergillus and Cladosporium. (girlfriend is sensitive to respiratory conditions).
The landlord was not prepared to remediate the issues, although we asked for this first.
Due to dampness we did not feel we could make full use of the house and this is our arguement.
No it is possible it could have been cleaned and dehumidified to resolve the issue if its was just a blocked air brick.There was rising damp on a back wall where an air brick had been covered by a concrete patio.
Most of the moisture was from where all ventilation in the building had been blocked in an attempt to improve insulation. Internal humidity readings were over 70% in places.
The toxicity samples showed elevated levels of Aspergillus and Cladosporium. (girlfriend is sensitive to respiratory conditions).
The landlord was not prepared to remediate the issues, although we asked for this first.
Due to dampness we did not feel we could make full use of the house and this is our arguement.
I get that in your position, you did not want to move in and its sounds like a good case for not moving in, however since its 8 days monies I would suggest it isn't worth the time and money to claim back (250-750) in rent, small claims would be your only option. You could speak to shelter but as you have handed back the property I am not sure they will help.
I would chalk it up to experience and walk away not worth the stress and further monies!
elanfan said:
Report it to the council, no one else should get landed with it!
Yea good point!, a lot of social housing I have seen has this issue due to tenants covering vents, not airing bathrooms/shower rooms or running non condensing tumbles, or hanging damp washing all over the shop.My local fish rapper loves a black mould on windows story where 8/9 out of 10 are tenant caused!
That last social housing developed I was involved in they bought each new property/tenant a £500 condensing tumble to try and stop it happening! One of the reasons I hate social housing.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Saturday 28th January 12:08
Edited by surveyor_101 on Saturday 28th January 12:09
Unreal said:
Small claims might not be the only option. Are the letting agents members of any trade organisation? If so there may be an arbitration process or even access to an ombudsman.
Have you ever tried that? Had any success ?I reported a ARLA Agent as he issued a rent increase notice inside the first 12 months (8-9months in) and they accepted it was an oversite!!!
Even though the agent emailed saying he was doing it off the landlords instruction, I stated it breach their own tenancy and he said the landlords has now agreed to wait until 12 months. No admission that it was issued error, my experience has been self regulation is rubbish!
surveyor_101 said:
Penny Pusher said:
Local authority won’t act on a vacant property, don’t waste your time and move on.
My experience they won't do anything but they will rent it from the landlord and stick some migrants in it!surveyor_101 said:
Unreal said:
Small claims might not be the only option. Are the letting agents members of any trade organisation? If so there may be an arbitration process or even access to an ombudsman.
Have you ever tried that? Had any success ?I reported a ARLA Agent as he issued a rent increase notice inside the first 12 months (8-9months in) and they accepted it was an oversite!!!
Even though the agent emailed saying he was doing it off the landlords instruction, I stated it breach their own tenancy and he said the landlords has now agreed to wait until 12 months. No admission that it was issued error, my experience has been self regulation is rubbish!
surveyor_101 said:
No it is possible it could have been cleaned and dehumidified to resolve the issue if its was just a blocked air brick.
All the roof vents were also blocked, but yes I get where you are coming from. To be honest, if they were prepared to "split the difference" I would be happy. I might still send a Letter Before Action anyway and see what their response is.The Housing Health and Safety Rating System was introduced by the Housing Act 2004 as a method for local authorities and environmental health departments to assess potential hazards in properties which have a direct impact on the health and safety of a Tenant. If the hazard identified is classified as a Category 1 Hazard, this means the hazard presents an imminent risk of serious harm to the occupants. In these circumstances, the local authority has an obligation to take action against the Landlord to resolve the issue.
In relation to condensation and mould in particular, Section 10 Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 provides that a property could be deemed not fit for human habitation unless there is “freedom from damp” or ventilation at the property. Both of those issues in turn contributes to with damp and mould even more prevalent in modern properties.
Clearly from the OP's post, the rental property was unfit for human occupation, and the OP should consider informing the landlord of the above, and stating that unless he receives full refund of all the rental monies, he will both contact the local council's environmental department, and seek to recover all his expenses through the small claims court.
A landlord's responsibility to control condensation & mould are too many for me to post, but air bricks and trickle vents being clear to allow free movement of air is one.
In relation to condensation and mould in particular, Section 10 Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 provides that a property could be deemed not fit for human habitation unless there is “freedom from damp” or ventilation at the property. Both of those issues in turn contributes to with damp and mould even more prevalent in modern properties.
Clearly from the OP's post, the rental property was unfit for human occupation, and the OP should consider informing the landlord of the above, and stating that unless he receives full refund of all the rental monies, he will both contact the local council's environmental department, and seek to recover all his expenses through the small claims court.
A landlord's responsibility to control condensation & mould are too many for me to post, but air bricks and trickle vents being clear to allow free movement of air is one.
Unreal said:
The point I was making was that there may be alternatives to the small claims court. There are no guarantees with that option either. In addition, small claims come with costs whereas a complaint through a trade organisation's channels or to an ombudsman will almost certainly not.
I get that, point I was making most are members clubs much like PPC's have IPC AND BPA. They can't hammer their own members as they pay the bills! The self regulation element doesn't work.Its worth a try for the sake of 8 days rent I doubt many people will get that bent out of shape.
You can threaten the landlord agent with action, depends in my area there aren't a shed load of agents and if you want to rent going to war with one can be a daft move. Should you need a rental house again you don't want to have burnt bridges with agents.
I lost £200 on a tiny dent on a fridge which the agent got quite funny about! Let it go and said look I want to keep a good relationship with you and he does have a lot of friends locally, he has put business my way since and my ex and I got help with a house 2 years later. No doubt if I had said lets go dispute on the deposit over 207 quid I would not haven't benefited from the same guy again, certainly he is the biggest agent in the area.
Sometimes picking your battles is worth while!
Edited by surveyor_101 on Saturday 28th January 17:10
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