RE: ULEZ expansion triggers new scrappage scheme

RE: ULEZ expansion triggers new scrappage scheme

Monday 30th January 2023

ULEZ expansion triggers new scrappage scheme

Eligible Londoners to be granted up to £5k for upgrades as ULEZ grows


There’s nothing that’ll get a debate raging like scrappage schemes, be that from an environmental perspective or just the sad demise of old cars - and you could say the same for the questionable benefits of the ULEZ. So this qualifies as a perfect storm: with the ULEZ expanding right up to the M25 at the end of August, Transport for London is launching a new £110m programme to get those in the capital into an eligible car.

There are some caveats, of course. Up to £5,000 per person is going to be offered to those with cars or motorbikes that don’t meet the emissions criteria of ULEZ (Euro 4 petrol, Euro 6 diesel) if they are on ‘certain low income or disability benefits’. According to TfL, that’s things like Income Support, Housing Benefit, Disability Living Allowance and so on.

The maximum £5k grant is for either scrapping a wheelchair-accessible car or van, or retrofitting the latter with equipment to make it compliant. There’s a Clean Vehicle Retrofit Accreditation Scheme, and garages on that list can bring a wheelchair-accessible vehicle up to standard. Those scrapping a car will get £2,000, which anyone searching for a used car right now will tell you doesn’t go an awfully long way. Alternatively, residents can opt for £1,600 plus one adult rate Annual Bus & Tram Pass or £1,200 plus two of the passes for their old car. Or, of course, they can keep it, and pay the daily charge to drive in any of London’s 32 boroughs.

TfL says the scheme will help clear London’s air and encourage the switch to ‘cleaner, greener modes of transport’. Certainly, nobody who’s lived in the capital would suggest it ever feels like the healthiest place to breathe, but then life isn’t as simple as just buying a newer, less polluting car - even with a financial incentive. And especially not right now. Those wishing to apply have plenty of hoops to jump through, largely relating to proof of ownership and proof of benefits, but the scheme gets even dafter as scrapping a vehicle could affect benefits and tax status.

Because some means-tested benefits can be influenced by savings, the grant money could come in, leave somebody without a car, put applicants over a certain threshold and consequently change the claim, which is a totally absurd - and therefore completely believable - situation for people to be put in. ‘TfL will have no liability to you if the ULEZ car and motorcycle scrappage scheme grant payment affects any means-tested benefits you receive.’ And this is meant to be encouraging people out of their cars!

So there might be some teething problems, to put it mildly. The full rundown of who is eligible and what to do ahead of August can be found here; suffice it to say there will be plenty more to say about the latest scrappage scheme over the next six months. And maybe a few cars for sale in the capital too…


Author
Discussion

magic Monkey Dust

Original Poster:

327 posts

49 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
My Porsche 911 3.8 litre qualifies as exempt and my little Vespa 125cc doesn't. There is no thought process in any of this. Its just a mess.I will now have to up my pollution levels for Mr Kan't.

Matt_T

793 posts

87 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
My 2009 Accord 2.2 diesel isn't exempt yet was £30 road tax as it is 173g/cc CO2.

My neighbours 2009 Q7 3.0 diesel is exempt yet produces 279g/cc of CO2 (the same as a coal fired power station).

Makes no bl00dy sense to me at all...


Edited by Matt_T on Monday 30th January 12:05

anonymous-user

67 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
Matt_T said:
My neighbours 2009 Q7 3.0 diesel is exempt yet produces 279g/cc of CO2 (the same as a coal fired power station).
I don't see how that is possible as I thought every diesel pre 2015 was Euro 5.

Euro 4 diesel here, no grant for me as I am not on benefits.

Silvanus

6,812 posts

36 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
magic Monkey Dust said:
My Porsche 911 3.8 litre qualifies as exempt and my little Vespa 125cc doesn't. There is no thought process in any of this. Its just a mess.I will now have to up my pollution levels for Mr Kan't.
To be fair, some scooters give out terrible emissions, far worse than most cars.

Next thing they will outlaw are domestic petrol mowers and chainsaws etc.

R Mutt

5,895 posts

85 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
Silvanus said:
To be fair, some scooters give out terrible emissions, far worse than most cars.

Next thing they will outlaw are domestic petrol mowers and chainsaws etc.
Wood and coal fires are already out.

TBF my asthma does play up when I stay in a property with either of those as its sole source of heating but surely concentrations are incredibly low outside in London where such fuels are rare

Ashok

615 posts

272 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
ULEZ is simply a tax that will hurt those least able to afford a newer (compliant) car. The scrappage scheme won't buy anyone a new car. ULEZ does nothing to reduce emissions and is further offset by all the insane LTN and bus lanes that create monstrous lines of sitting traffic. If the Mayor really wanted to tackle these issues, start by making traffic flow more efficiently and reintroduce lay-bys for bus stops instead of making them stop blocking a lane. Also, require all taxis and buses to be zero emission. Central government could do a lot too by giving larger incentive to switch domestic boilers to heat pumps, promote hydrogen powered vehicles especially HGVs, etc etc.

The Hypno-Toad

12,840 posts

218 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
So here you go, £5000 to swop into a low emission petrol car.

Except.....

Will people who motoring minded remember that they have to take one that is ok on E10 fuel? Or just buy one that should be run on super unleaded but has been run on the E10 all through the last couple of years and during the petrol crisis & therefore is likely to go bang a little bit earlier than expected? Because with £5000 to spend on a car as a maximum and heating bills to pay a lot of people will run the risk and buy what they can afford.

Still, when it does go bang and you still can't afford to replace it because there are far fewer affordable cars, they will be loads of buses and trains to keep everyone moving, won't there?

C7 JFW

1,205 posts

232 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
Autocompile list > Submit.

It would take a single person with knowledge of cars and a spreadsheet of stats less than 90 days to create a list of cars that actually makes sense.

Matt_T

793 posts

87 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
Joey Deacon said:
Matt_T said:
My neighbours 2009 Q7 3.0 diesel is exempt yet produces 279g/cc of CO2 (the same as a coal fired power station).
I don't see how that is possible as I thought every diesel pre 2015 was Euro 5.

Euro 4 diesel here, no grant for me as I am not on benefits.

PistonTim

605 posts

152 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
Matt_T said:
Joey Deacon said:
Matt_T said:
My neighbours 2009 Q7 3.0 diesel is exempt yet produces 279g/cc of CO2 (the same as a coal fired power station).
I don't see how that is possible as I thought every diesel pre 2015 was Euro 5.

Euro 4 diesel here, no grant for me as I am not on benefits.
Whereas my 2013 BWW 2.0D produces 143g and I have to pay! Its so moronic.

anonymous-user

67 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
Matt_T said:
Joey Deacon said:
Matt_T said:
My neighbours 2009 Q7 3.0 diesel is exempt yet produces 279g/cc of CO2 (the same as a coal fired power station).
I don't see how that is possible as I thought every diesel pre 2015 was Euro 5.

Euro 4 diesel here, no grant for me as I am not on benefits.
I am surprised by that, clearly Audi were ahead of the game. I have tried the registration numbers of lots of pre 2015 diesel as a possible replacement and none of them were compliant

wistec1

595 posts

54 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
Time to move up north . It's grim up Eya apparently.

Edited by wistec1 on Monday 30th January 12:45

E30KB

277 posts

77 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
Dear PH,

Can we have a new "spotted" feature?. Non ULEZ compliant cars. £5k max budget.

anonymous-user

67 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
wistec1 said:
Time to move up north . It's grim up eah apparently.
You already have it.

Cities with clean air zones
Bath has a Class C clean air zone.

Birmingham has a Class D clean air zone.

Bradford has a Class C clean air zone.

Bristol has a Class D clean air zone.

Portsmouth has a Class B clean air zone.

Tyneside (Newcastle and Gateshead) has a Class C clean air zone.

Future clean air zones
Greater Manchester (under review).

Sheffield will start charging on 27 February 2023.

It would cost me £8 to drive in Birmingham

wistec1

595 posts

54 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
Manchester's dead on it's arse.

sixor8

6,905 posts

281 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
PistonTim said:
Matt_T said:
Joey Deacon said:
Matt_T said:
My neighbours 2009 Q7 3.0 diesel is exempt yet produces 279g/cc of CO2 (the same as a coal fired power station).
I don't see how that is possible as I thought every diesel pre 2015 was Euro 5.

Euro 4 diesel here, no grant for me as I am not on benefits.
Whereas my 2013 BWW 2.0D produces 143g and I have to pay! Its so moronic.
VED is on CO2 emissions alone. The ULEZ incorporates Nitrous Oxide and particular emissions too. The Euro 4, 5, 6 stuff is not just CO2.

Hereward

4,632 posts

243 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
My 2003 VW Touareg 4.2 V8 petrol that averages less than 20mpg is London ULEZ exempt!

"You do not need to pay a daily ULEZ charge to drive in the zone, and are helping to improve air quality across London."

Lolz.

varsas

4,065 posts

215 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
sixor8 said:
PistonTim said:
Matt_T said:
Joey Deacon said:
Matt_T said:
My neighbours 2009 Q7 3.0 diesel is exempt yet produces 279g/cc of CO2 (the same as a coal fired power station).
I don't see how that is possible as I thought every diesel pre 2015 was Euro 5.

Euro 4 diesel here, no grant for me as I am not on benefits.
Whereas my 2013 BWW 2.0D produces 143g and I have to pay! Its so moronic.
VED is on CO2 emissions alone. The ULEZ incorporates Nitrous Oxide and particular emissions too. The Euro 4, 5, 6 stuff is not just CO2.
Is that a special exemption, I mean has someone paid/applied/proved that make/model falls under the limits and so it's exempt? Did Euro6 for diesels even exist when that car was registered?

And yes, CO2 doesn't have a direct impact on air quality, it's particulates etc they are worried about hence less sophisticated petrols (which inherintly produce fewer particulates etc) are allowed but diesels have to be very clean.

Glenn63

3,372 posts

97 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
Is that Range Rover in first pic a Lunaz? I’d happily have one of those for a daily.

Dave Hedgehog

14,793 posts

217 months

Monday 30th January 2023
quotequote all
Matt_T said:
My 2009 Accord 2.2 diesel isn't exempt yet was £30 road tax as it is 173g/cc CO2.

My neighbours 2009 Q7 3.0 diesel is exempt yet produces 279g/cc of CO2 (the same as a coal fired power station).

Makes no bl00dy sense to me at all...
Well it wouldn't since the ULEZ is nothing to do with CO2, its for NOx and PM

They use the Euro 4 for petrol and Euro 6 for diesel standards because its a simple cut off, but its a blunt tool and I bet most older E6 diesels wouldn't pass the standard now


but what's the alternative, test every vehicle every year? ban anything that's not a pure EV?