Car damaged in carpark
Discussion
Hi helpful people.
My car was damaged in an underground hotel car park the other week. The hotel doesn't own the car park but charges me a day rate to my room for the use of the carpark. The damage to the car was due to a small section of concrete (10"x1"x5") dropping from the ceiling, hitting the windscreen and settled on the bonnet. The car needs paint on the bonnet and a new windscreen.
The hotel were contacted but have passed on the incident to the car park owners and now is with the insurer of the car park. I received this email yesterday, how would others respond to this? The tone of the email looks like they're looking to wriggle out of this already. I'd say I have an ace card with the hotel. I've put a team of 5 of us in the hotel for 9 months of the year for the next 5 years. We are in a city and have plenty to pick from, so I'll take the business elsewhere if I don't get this paid for.
"Dear Sirs,
We refer to the above matter and write to confirm that we are the appointed claims handlers for Aviva, who are the Insurers of Trinova Real Estate.
Please note our interest in this matter and ensure that all future correspondence is sent to us, at the above address, quoting our reference number XXXXXXXXXXX
We are sorry to learn of the damage to your vehicle and can confirm we are carrying out an investigation into the alleged incident.
Please be advised that for Vehicle damage claims, there are no set deadlines under the claims protocol for liability enquiries to be complete. We will endeavour to complete our investigation as soon as possible.
If the vehicle is considered to be unroadworthy or otherwise requires immediate repair we have a duty to advise that, should any further losses not be mitigated as a result of these issues, we do not consider it would be reasonable for our Insured to be held responsible for additional losses incurred. For this reason, if the repairs are urgent, you may for wish to arrange for the repairs to be completed in the interim or report this matter to your own Insurers in the first instance.
Please can you advise why you believe our Insured has been negligent on this occasion and also provide the details of the damage to your vehicle along with photos of the damage?
Finally, we would take this opportunity to remind you that you do have the right to seek legal advice or representation on this matter at any stage of the process if you so wish.
We trust that this is in order and will await your reply.
Kind regards."
Thoughts?
My car was damaged in an underground hotel car park the other week. The hotel doesn't own the car park but charges me a day rate to my room for the use of the carpark. The damage to the car was due to a small section of concrete (10"x1"x5") dropping from the ceiling, hitting the windscreen and settled on the bonnet. The car needs paint on the bonnet and a new windscreen.
The hotel were contacted but have passed on the incident to the car park owners and now is with the insurer of the car park. I received this email yesterday, how would others respond to this? The tone of the email looks like they're looking to wriggle out of this already. I'd say I have an ace card with the hotel. I've put a team of 5 of us in the hotel for 9 months of the year for the next 5 years. We are in a city and have plenty to pick from, so I'll take the business elsewhere if I don't get this paid for.
"Dear Sirs,
We refer to the above matter and write to confirm that we are the appointed claims handlers for Aviva, who are the Insurers of Trinova Real Estate.
Please note our interest in this matter and ensure that all future correspondence is sent to us, at the above address, quoting our reference number XXXXXXXXXXX
We are sorry to learn of the damage to your vehicle and can confirm we are carrying out an investigation into the alleged incident.
Please be advised that for Vehicle damage claims, there are no set deadlines under the claims protocol for liability enquiries to be complete. We will endeavour to complete our investigation as soon as possible.
If the vehicle is considered to be unroadworthy or otherwise requires immediate repair we have a duty to advise that, should any further losses not be mitigated as a result of these issues, we do not consider it would be reasonable for our Insured to be held responsible for additional losses incurred. For this reason, if the repairs are urgent, you may for wish to arrange for the repairs to be completed in the interim or report this matter to your own Insurers in the first instance.
Please can you advise why you believe our Insured has been negligent on this occasion and also provide the details of the damage to your vehicle along with photos of the damage?
Finally, we would take this opportunity to remind you that you do have the right to seek legal advice or representation on this matter at any stage of the process if you so wish.
We trust that this is in order and will await your reply.
Kind regards."
Thoughts?
k off letter.I'd agree apart from
"Please can you advise why you believe our Insured has been negligent on this occasion?"
What are the obligations of someone who owns a carpark? Do they have to inspect the structure periodically? There are several signs on Hilton headed paper saying they accept no responsibility for any damaged caused to cars parked in the carpark.
"Please can you advise why you believe our Insured has been negligent on this occasion?"
What are the obligations of someone who owns a carpark? Do they have to inspect the structure periodically? There are several signs on Hilton headed paper saying they accept no responsibility for any damaged caused to cars parked in the carpark.
Sounds a bit weird tbh, a lump of concrete just fell off the structure?
I'd have thought it easy enough to go back to the exact location and see if there's other loose bits ready to drop off.
Think if I was the insurer I'd want more info, if the structure is that bad then it's hazardous to pedestrians not just cars.
I'd have thought it easy enough to go back to the exact location and see if there's other loose bits ready to drop off.
Think if I was the insurer I'd want more info, if the structure is that bad then it's hazardous to pedestrians not just cars.
Jamesgt said:
I'd agree apart from
"Please can you advise why you believe our Insured has been negligent on this occasion?"
What are the obligations of someone who owns a carpark? Do they have to inspect the structure periodically? There are several signs on Hilton headed paper saying they accept no responsibility for any damaged caused to cars parked in the carpark.
Another car bumping into yours would not be their liability."Please can you advise why you believe our Insured has been negligent on this occasion?"
What are the obligations of someone who owns a carpark? Do they have to inspect the structure periodically? There are several signs on Hilton headed paper saying they accept no responsibility for any damaged caused to cars parked in the carpark.
Their failure to inspect the fabric of the building on a regular basis is negligent. Concrete doesn't just "fall off" if correctly inspected.
I am not a lawyer.
Take pics of knackered concrete and highlight where the bit that hit your car fell off
Take pics of car and car damage (I’m hoping you actually took a photo before removing the concrete that damaged the car)
Copy your description of what happened from above.
Send them all the above.
As Vaud says they aren’t liable for other cars hitting your parked car and I’d put my house on that being by far the most common claim so I guess want to know exactly what happened.
I assume you don’t know specifically what they were told but the hotel, just that it had ‘been referred to them’ so could be they simply don’t know what’s happened/you’re claiming for specifically?
Take pics of car and car damage (I’m hoping you actually took a photo before removing the concrete that damaged the car)
Copy your description of what happened from above.
Send them all the above.
As Vaud says they aren’t liable for other cars hitting your parked car and I’d put my house on that being by far the most common claim so I guess want to know exactly what happened.
I assume you don’t know specifically what they were told but the hotel, just that it had ‘been referred to them’ so could be they simply don’t know what’s happened/you’re claiming for specifically?
It's the exact letter I would have sent if I was the insurer of the car park, who are there to work for their customer and act in their best interests.
The onus is on you to demonstrate the car park owners were negligent. If they weren't negligent, you don't have a claim against them. I am not a structural engineer, so I have no idea if concrete can just fall off the structure, or if that can only happen if it's poorly maintained. I have no idea what checks they are obligated to make to meet their obligations as a car park owner. This is stuff you need to research. But they've asked you why you think their client was negligent, and the claim is going nowhere until you answer that.
Good luck.
The onus is on you to demonstrate the car park owners were negligent. If they weren't negligent, you don't have a claim against them. I am not a structural engineer, so I have no idea if concrete can just fall off the structure, or if that can only happen if it's poorly maintained. I have no idea what checks they are obligated to make to meet their obligations as a car park owner. This is stuff you need to research. But they've asked you why you think their client was negligent, and the claim is going nowhere until you answer that.
Good luck.
When my Dads car was damaged in an automatic car wash, the company and Insurers tried to rely on the disclaimer signs dotted around - no liability howsoever caused etc and saying the manufacturer needed to be involved.
My Dads solicitor simply pointed out:
Did the machine malfunction? Yes
Did it caused damage? Yes
So redress was sought from the forecourt retailer only (or if they wanted indemnity via their Insurer) as he paid them directly for the service. If they wanted to argue blame involving the manufacturer that wasn't my Dads concern. The Insurer paid out.
My Dads solicitor simply pointed out:
Did the machine malfunction? Yes
Did it caused damage? Yes
So redress was sought from the forecourt retailer only (or if they wanted indemnity via their Insurer) as he paid them directly for the service. If they wanted to argue blame involving the manufacturer that wasn't my Dads concern. The Insurer paid out.
dibblecorse said:
Lots of good advice but why would you look to extort payment for this from the hotel if the car park insurers don't pay out?
They neither own or operate the car park, they are just able to process your payments.
just an assumption. If I'm paying the hotel and the carpark has hotel signage on it then I'd assumed the hotel would have some responsibility? The insurers have been sent photos of the damage, the concrete sat on the bonnet, the ceiling where parts are missing from this incident and previous incidents. I'll shall sit and wait for their reply. They neither own or operate the car park, they are just able to process your payments.
Have you told your own insurer?
They would handle the case as that is what you pay them to do.
Do you have photos of the car/ location/ concrete structure? Anything in writing from the hotel?
At the very least the concrete falling would suggest safety issues and structural checks by the hotel and carpark firm ( likely under a contract with the hotel to manage parking).
You are likely to have a good case for a no fault incident provided there were no warning signs about the concrete falling risk. By now there may be signs/ barriers in place?
They would handle the case as that is what you pay them to do.
Do you have photos of the car/ location/ concrete structure? Anything in writing from the hotel?
At the very least the concrete falling would suggest safety issues and structural checks by the hotel and carpark firm ( likely under a contract with the hotel to manage parking).
You are likely to have a good case for a no fault incident provided there were no warning signs about the concrete falling risk. By now there may be signs/ barriers in place?
I'd suggest asking the HSE if the car park operator has been negligent or not.
It's not much like a twig falling off a tree in a gale is it?
If a lump falls off a building indoors, it's usually somebody's fault.
Maybe responsibility is a better word than 'fault'.
I think the OP should put it in the hands of his insurer, get it fixed in a timely manner keeping additional costs down and take it from there.
It's not much like a twig falling off a tree in a gale is it?
If a lump falls off a building indoors, it's usually somebody's fault.
Maybe responsibility is a better word than 'fault'.
I think the OP should put it in the hands of his insurer, get it fixed in a timely manner keeping additional costs down and take it from there.
Bits of concrete shouldn’t randomly fall off of a concrete structure. The most common cause would be spalling of the concrete caused by corroding steel reinforcement. This can occur for a variety of reasons, carbonation / inadequate reinforcement cover or chloride attack caused by de icing salts being the most probable in a concrete car park.
Either way there are usually signs that the above is occurring before lumps spall off.
Either way there are usually signs that the above is occurring before lumps spall off.
KungFuPanda said:
I wonder how swift their liability investigations would be if you were insured on a third party only basis, your car was unroadworthy due to the damage, you had no savings to effect a repair and you were availing yourself of a credit hire vehicle at the prevailing ABI GTA rate.
More to the point, if it had hit a pedestrian.Jamesgt said:
Above where the car was parked there is a gap in the concrete where water is weeping through. I'm sure this has weakened the area over time. I've pulled all the other bits down now that are likely to fall.
I wouldn't be parking there in future, this collapse was initiated by water infiltration into a carpark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapseThe rooftop car park of a shopping mall in Canada collapsed into the mall below killing shoppers. The cause was found to be weakened reinforcing caused by years of water contaminated with road salt seeping into the joins.
I expect there are a few 60,s concrete car parks in this country suffering similar problems.
I expect there are a few 60,s concrete car parks in this country suffering similar problems.
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