Head or heart?
Discussion
I'm sure each of us have that dream car that we would keep happily the rest of our days. For me, its the Mazda RX-8.
Obviously, the RX-8 is near the bottom of the depreciation curve - bad examples can be had for bottom of the market value, with good ones holding only a few thousand pounds. (although running costs are obviously fairly eye-watering)
For me, I've recently changed job, and my commute has dropped from 30 miles a day to 6 miles a day, meaning that the overall running cost (with only very mild man-maths) of an RX-8 is the same as what I was paying last year. (at least for the cheaper road tax on pre-2006 ones)
The current car has a few little issues which means it's not worth anything to sell because the fault is some random electrical fault that could be weeks of labour just finding and I can't do myself for lack of time, but it is also too nice to scrap. Plus, keeping it instead will keep well over a thousand pounds each year, which is a nice amount in the circumstances of today.
There's also domestic issues that mean there's a compelling reason to save the money.
Equally, looking ahead at the future, and it's not unreasonable to think of getting it now while I still can use it, because let's face it, running cars like an RX-8 is only going to become harder in the next few decades, and it may well end up being a driveway ornament that I can no longer use in England.
So, I find myself in a little bit of a quandary.
Head - stick with current car.
Heart - give the current car to my Dad and get the RX-8.
What would PH do?
Obviously, the RX-8 is near the bottom of the depreciation curve - bad examples can be had for bottom of the market value, with good ones holding only a few thousand pounds. (although running costs are obviously fairly eye-watering)
For me, I've recently changed job, and my commute has dropped from 30 miles a day to 6 miles a day, meaning that the overall running cost (with only very mild man-maths) of an RX-8 is the same as what I was paying last year. (at least for the cheaper road tax on pre-2006 ones)
The current car has a few little issues which means it's not worth anything to sell because the fault is some random electrical fault that could be weeks of labour just finding and I can't do myself for lack of time, but it is also too nice to scrap. Plus, keeping it instead will keep well over a thousand pounds each year, which is a nice amount in the circumstances of today.
There's also domestic issues that mean there's a compelling reason to save the money.
Equally, looking ahead at the future, and it's not unreasonable to think of getting it now while I still can use it, because let's face it, running cars like an RX-8 is only going to become harder in the next few decades, and it may well end up being a driveway ornament that I can no longer use in England.
So, I find myself in a little bit of a quandary.
Head - stick with current car.
Heart - give the current car to my Dad and get the RX-8.
What would PH do?
If your finances and domestic situation can take the cost of £200 a month without much trouble then do it (£100 extra costs and £100 for the invariable repairs). Be prepared for a good £1500 engine rebuild if you need it, and remember you'll need to add various chemicals and what not to the fuel to make it last longer. Rotaries are a gamble. You could end up with one that's never been serviced, never even seen a sponge and is only ever fed Asda's cheapest fuel and it'll last forever, or you could end up with one that's been serviced to within an inch of its life and it'll collapse the day after you buy it. There doesn't seem to be much in it, other than it'll cost you a fortune.
If it was me, I'd buy it and get a cheap bicycle for when it won't start!
If it was me, I'd buy it and get a cheap bicycle for when it won't start!
Rotary engines are not the nightmare that many believe. They have far fewer moving parts than a reciprocal piston engine. However, maintenance and proper care are critical. They don't like being started and stopped without warming up, they actually burn oil in the combustion process (about 0.5l per 1000 miles in standard tune), they can't tolerate detonation which is less of a problem with a NA than a turbo. If you do decide to go for the RX8 look for an example that's been owned by an enthusiast and definitely get a rotary compression test (you want the results to be in the 7s on all six compression pulses. Any notable differences in the test numbers - walk away as it suggests a damaged apex seal, or corner seal less than 7s suggests that the seals in general are worn). Flooding can be a problem if you run the car for short periods.
Hope that helps?
Hope that helps?
Personally I wouldn't get an RX-8 and drive it 3 miles to work and back each day, that's not really a great use for a sports car and it'll spend most of its time running below the optimum operating temperature.
So the first step is to commute by bicycle, if you don't already have another way of getting to work. This also frees up a bit of money each month to maintain the car.
If you've always wanted an RX-8 then I'd buy one I think. While the rotary engines do gradually lose compression, it's likely to give you reasonable warning, it's not that likely to leave you stranded, and they're pretty decent cars for weekend usage I think, decently comfortable for days out as well as fun to drive.
Do look out for rust as well as the engine condition, they're starting to really suffer. Do join the owners club, good information although watch out for the weirdos. Do be aware that anything first registered after 23/03/2006 will pay the full whack road tax of over £600, if money is an issue. Ideally get any purchase checked over by a rotary specialist first.
I'd be inclined to get one if you think you can, I feel like they'll get somewhat harder to maintain over time as rust bites and spares may dry up. So if it's your dream car then I'd say go for it.
FWIW I bought an RX-7 in 2012, was concerned about the costs beforehand and it was pricey but never regretted it, loved the car, only sold it last year.
So the first step is to commute by bicycle, if you don't already have another way of getting to work. This also frees up a bit of money each month to maintain the car.
If you've always wanted an RX-8 then I'd buy one I think. While the rotary engines do gradually lose compression, it's likely to give you reasonable warning, it's not that likely to leave you stranded, and they're pretty decent cars for weekend usage I think, decently comfortable for days out as well as fun to drive.
Do look out for rust as well as the engine condition, they're starting to really suffer. Do join the owners club, good information although watch out for the weirdos. Do be aware that anything first registered after 23/03/2006 will pay the full whack road tax of over £600, if money is an issue. Ideally get any purchase checked over by a rotary specialist first.
I'd be inclined to get one if you think you can, I feel like they'll get somewhat harder to maintain over time as rust bites and spares may dry up. So if it's your dream car then I'd say go for it.
FWIW I bought an RX-7 in 2012, was concerned about the costs beforehand and it was pricey but never regretted it, loved the car, only sold it last year.
...... said:
I'm sure each of us have that dream car that we would keep happily the rest of our days. For me, its the Mazda RX-8.
Obviously, the RX-8 is near the bottom of the depreciation curve - bad examples can be had for bottom of the market value, with good ones holding only a few thousand pounds. (although running costs are obviously fairly eye-watering)
For me, I've recently changed job, and my commute has dropped from 30 miles a day to 6 miles a day, meaning that the overall running cost (with only very mild man-maths) of an RX-8 is the same as what I was paying last year. (at least for the cheaper road tax on pre-2006 ones)
The current car has a few little issues which means it's not worth anything to sell because the fault is some random electrical fault that could be weeks of labour just finding and I can't do myself for lack of time, but it is also too nice to scrap. Plus, keeping it instead will keep well over a thousand pounds each year, which is a nice amount in the circumstances of today.
There's also domestic issues that mean there's a compelling reason to save the money.
Equally, looking ahead at the future, and it's not unreasonable to think of getting it now while I still can use it, because let's face it, running cars like an RX-8 is only going to become harder in the next few decades, and it may well end up being a driveway ornament that I can no longer use in England.
So, I find myself in a little bit of a quandary.
Head - stick with current car.
Heart - give the current car to my Dad and get the RX-8.
What would PH do?
We got a low mileage one owner rx8 from a family friend, sold after 6 weeks as total pita. You will flood the engine, it won’t start, you will end up having to fit a booster starter motor - just a nightmare Obviously, the RX-8 is near the bottom of the depreciation curve - bad examples can be had for bottom of the market value, with good ones holding only a few thousand pounds. (although running costs are obviously fairly eye-watering)
For me, I've recently changed job, and my commute has dropped from 30 miles a day to 6 miles a day, meaning that the overall running cost (with only very mild man-maths) of an RX-8 is the same as what I was paying last year. (at least for the cheaper road tax on pre-2006 ones)
The current car has a few little issues which means it's not worth anything to sell because the fault is some random electrical fault that could be weeks of labour just finding and I can't do myself for lack of time, but it is also too nice to scrap. Plus, keeping it instead will keep well over a thousand pounds each year, which is a nice amount in the circumstances of today.
There's also domestic issues that mean there's a compelling reason to save the money.
Equally, looking ahead at the future, and it's not unreasonable to think of getting it now while I still can use it, because let's face it, running cars like an RX-8 is only going to become harder in the next few decades, and it may well end up being a driveway ornament that I can no longer use in England.
So, I find myself in a little bit of a quandary.
Head - stick with current car.
Heart - give the current car to my Dad and get the RX-8.
What would PH do?
Thank you all.
I know maintenance and oil changes are essential, and as far as engine rebuilds go, I was thinking of buying a good car but with a broken engine, take it to a specialist rebuilder and have them sort it out. That means I know I will be starting with it right. Or just buy one from them in the first place.
Cycling to work is reasonably feasible, my worry would be that I don't really want to be doing it this time of year. But it is definitely a sensible suggestion.
I'm in the fortunate position where the £600 road tax on newer ones isn't necessarily a deal breaker, just inconvenient.
Good call on owners club, hadn't thought of that.
What would be useful to know is how long the scenic route to work needs to be to warm it properly.
I know maintenance and oil changes are essential, and as far as engine rebuilds go, I was thinking of buying a good car but with a broken engine, take it to a specialist rebuilder and have them sort it out. That means I know I will be starting with it right. Or just buy one from them in the first place.
Cycling to work is reasonably feasible, my worry would be that I don't really want to be doing it this time of year. But it is definitely a sensible suggestion.
I'm in the fortunate position where the £600 road tax on newer ones isn't necessarily a deal breaker, just inconvenient.
Good call on owners club, hadn't thought of that.
What would be useful to know is how long the scenic route to work needs to be to warm it properly.
Definitely get some objective views from the owners clubs.
I almost got one of these a few years back but opted for a 350z instead (and still think I made the right choice). I saw one at a meet on sunday at MBW and it looked really nice, still looks fresh and different.
But yes when I was reading up on them echo the above. If you start it up drive it a short distance and then turn it off, it wont start again. Bonkers really that a car is released by a manufacturer that cannot do this. But yes rust and consumables all need to be checked and get a recent compression test done.
Ultimately, ICE cars are going to be forcibly removed from the road by government at the soonest so if its a dream of yours, take it. You can always earn more money later in life, but its unlikely RX8s will be around for that long.
I almost got one of these a few years back but opted for a 350z instead (and still think I made the right choice). I saw one at a meet on sunday at MBW and it looked really nice, still looks fresh and different.
But yes when I was reading up on them echo the above. If you start it up drive it a short distance and then turn it off, it wont start again. Bonkers really that a car is released by a manufacturer that cannot do this. But yes rust and consumables all need to be checked and get a recent compression test done.
Ultimately, ICE cars are going to be forcibly removed from the road by government at the soonest so if its a dream of yours, take it. You can always earn more money later in life, but its unlikely RX8s will be around for that long.
...... said:
Cycling to work is reasonably feasible, my worry would be that I don't really want to be doing it this time of year. But it is definitely a sensible suggestion.
What would be useful to know is how long the scenic route to work needs to be to warm it properly.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I expect a 3 mile drive is enough to get the engine warm by the time you arrive, certainly it shouldn't flood if shut off after 3 miles. I just have a feeling that if the main use a car gets is ten three-mile trips from cold each week, it's spending a large proportion of its time "warming up" so with cold oil, running rich etc, which maybe isn't great for a rotary, over time. It's not great for a piston engine either AFAIK, it's just that modern piston engines and their oils are so refined as to handle it, whereas the rotary is perhaps still a bit vulnerable to that sort of usage over time. Conversely I think they're pretty good at being used hard once warmed up. What would be useful to know is how long the scenic route to work needs to be to warm it properly.
...... said:
I know maintenance and oil changes are essential, and as far as engine rebuilds go, I was thinking of buying a good car but with a broken engine, take it to a specialist rebuilder and have them sort it out. That means I know I will be starting with it right. Or just buy one from them in the first place.
The biggest challenge with a rotary is finding a good specialist IMO, unfortunately it's not a very competitive field and that allows less competent outfits to thrive. I don't know who's good for the RX-8s, I eventually found RotorTorque for my 7 and after that the car was 'right' a lot more of the time. Hopefully a careful and thorough peruse of the owners forum will lead you in a good direction.coldel said:
But yes when I was reading up on them echo the above. If you start it up drive it a short distance and then turn it off, it wont start again. Bonkers really that a car is released by a manufacturer that cannot do this.
Only if it has an issue. They weren't like that from factory........ said:
Thank you all.
I know maintenance and oil changes are essential, and as far as engine rebuilds go, I was thinking of buying a good car but with a broken engine, take it to a specialist rebuilder and have them sort it out. That means I know I will be starting with it right. Or just buy one from them in the first place.
Cycling to work is reasonably feasible, my worry would be that I don't really want to be doing it this time of year. But it is definitely a sensible suggestion.
I'm in the fortunate position where the £600 road tax on newer ones isn't necessarily a deal breaker, just inconvenient.
Good call on owners club, hadn't thought of that.
What would be useful to know is how long the scenic route to work needs to be to warm it properly.
Sounds like you have given it a bit of thought. A 3 mile each way commute would depend on the amount of traffic. You want the oil to be up to temp. Also rotaries are high revving engines so they need to be driven (if you know what I mean).I know maintenance and oil changes are essential, and as far as engine rebuilds go, I was thinking of buying a good car but with a broken engine, take it to a specialist rebuilder and have them sort it out. That means I know I will be starting with it right. Or just buy one from them in the first place.
Cycling to work is reasonably feasible, my worry would be that I don't really want to be doing it this time of year. But it is definitely a sensible suggestion.
I'm in the fortunate position where the £600 road tax on newer ones isn't necessarily a deal breaker, just inconvenient.
Good call on owners club, hadn't thought of that.
What would be useful to know is how long the scenic route to work needs to be to warm it properly.
Good rotary specialists are rare, check out The Mazda Rotary Club for referrals, I used to use RX Motors, but I am not sure if Tim is still trading as I haven't owned an RX7 for about 10 yes now. WGT in the North West also have a great rep, as does Carl Haywood (Haywood Rotaries). If you want anything interesting in your rebuild Oldone racing is a guy called Era who builds rotary race and drag engines.
Rotaries can flood if not allowed to warm up although it's more common in cars that are running too rich to start with, unlike a piston engine the fuel doesn't drain out either so -and you will get funny looks for this - you need to use a very long plug spanner and remove the two lower spark plugs, either disconnect the fuel pump and turn it over for a couple of seconds or turn it over by hand with the ignition off to clear the fuel. I had a heavily tuned bridge port which was prone to flooding as it ran rich at low revs, peak power was around 8000rpm so I became a bit of a dab hand and could unflood it in about 3 mins.
I’d just say that the idea of buying one with a bad engine cheap and getting the engine rebuilt doesn’t sound like a great idea.
Costs add up. I think you’d be better waiting to pick one up that someone else has forked out for a rebuild.
I wouldn’t think that these are in massive demand nowadays so you can bide your time for a good one to turn up. Don’t be in a rush.
/dad mode off
Costs add up. I think you’d be better waiting to pick one up that someone else has forked out for a rebuild.
I wouldn’t think that these are in massive demand nowadays so you can bide your time for a good one to turn up. Don’t be in a rush.
/dad mode off
Got a friend who had a RX8. His words "I wouldn't wish my worst enemy to own a RX8". He's fairly decent with a spanner and did a lot of the work himself when it broke.
He told me that you have to top up the oil every 1000 miles or couple of months. 20mpg at best and he were getting about 15mpg. Then you have the stupid price of car tax on top. Followed by the cost of the repairs which if it is an engine rebuild will be £1500-£3500 depending where you go.
With the miles you are doing it would be tempting but you have to redline the car several times when you are driving to make sure you don't damage the engine. Of course you can only do this when it is hot, so no nipping to the shop in it. 6 miles isn't a lot and the car is barely warm at that point.
I know that they are nice cars but I'd probably not bother at this point. Keep the current car and save up to buy something better. Or just sell the car and buy something else. Doing 6 miles a day means you can get something like a Mazda 3 MPS which many people don't seem to want or even maybe a Volvo C30 T5 R design
He told me that you have to top up the oil every 1000 miles or couple of months. 20mpg at best and he were getting about 15mpg. Then you have the stupid price of car tax on top. Followed by the cost of the repairs which if it is an engine rebuild will be £1500-£3500 depending where you go.
With the miles you are doing it would be tempting but you have to redline the car several times when you are driving to make sure you don't damage the engine. Of course you can only do this when it is hot, so no nipping to the shop in it. 6 miles isn't a lot and the car is barely warm at that point.
I know that they are nice cars but I'd probably not bother at this point. Keep the current car and save up to buy something better. Or just sell the car and buy something else. Doing 6 miles a day means you can get something like a Mazda 3 MPS which many people don't seem to want or even maybe a Volvo C30 T5 R design
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