Dodgy will goings on
Discussion
This relates to my mother in laws inheritance she was meant to receive, please bear with me, i have said to my wife i will ask on here as the whole thing doesnt sound right to me.
My mother in laws mum owned a property.
She married a man (who turned out to be a fraudster)
She had a will which stated the property is to be lived in by The man if she dies and then when he dies it goes to the mil.
At some stage they did equity release. I believe here is where it goes wrong as now he is down as an owner with her.
She dies (some years ago now, maybe 10 iirc)
He recently died.
His will states its only his kids who will receive anything. (who apparently hated him by all accounts but of course will lap up the couple of hundred grand between them).
Mil receives nothing.
So correct me if i am wrong, has he not stolen the house effectively?
Mil is understandably very upset, as is my wife. By all accounts this bloke was a proper w
ker, he cheated on her mum, he was horrible all the time to the mil and my wife.
So is it a case of thats that?
My mother in laws mum owned a property.
She married a man (who turned out to be a fraudster)
She had a will which stated the property is to be lived in by The man if she dies and then when he dies it goes to the mil.
At some stage they did equity release. I believe here is where it goes wrong as now he is down as an owner with her.
She dies (some years ago now, maybe 10 iirc)
He recently died.
His will states its only his kids who will receive anything. (who apparently hated him by all accounts but of course will lap up the couple of hundred grand between them).
Mil receives nothing.
So correct me if i am wrong, has he not stolen the house effectively?
Mil is understandably very upset, as is my wife. By all accounts this bloke was a proper w
ker, he cheated on her mum, he was horrible all the time to the mil and my wife.So is it a case of thats that?
IANAL
re: Equity Release - is he actually down as the joint owner on the Land Registry paperwork? I can understand why he might be on the Equity release paperwork because the Bank will have wanted to know who had the right to live there i.e. they couldn't reposess the house until the Occupiers died.
Secondly does your MIL have a copy of her mum's will? The house won't be part of her estate any more but the proceeds of the sale (less what is owed to the bank) should ideally go to whoever your MIL's mum wanted them to go to.
re: Equity Release - is he actually down as the joint owner on the Land Registry paperwork? I can understand why he might be on the Equity release paperwork because the Bank will have wanted to know who had the right to live there i.e. they couldn't reposess the house until the Occupiers died.
Secondly does your MIL have a copy of her mum's will? The house won't be part of her estate any more but the proceeds of the sale (less what is owed to the bank) should ideally go to whoever your MIL's mum wanted them to go to.
Sounds like they became joint owners when he was added to the mortgage (deeds need to match the mortgage), you need to check if they were joint or tenants in common.
If joint then he inherited the property regardless of the Will on her death (common mistake)
You may need to go on a hunt to see if the original owner was given legal advice when he was added to the deeds under transfer of equity.
Also obtain the deeds and see if it said "title absolute" (joint) or "no disposition to a trust…." (Tenants in common) and then see if any deeds of trust were signed.
It isn’t stealing if she agreed to becoming joint with him. I would also try and find out from the lifetime mortgage co who the advisor was and see if they documented any of this?
People really need to have asset protection strategies to avoid this sort of thing with proper thought out holistic advice. Tenants in common with her half or even 99% directed to a family trust and interest in possession would have sorted this issue and the bloodline would have been protected.
If joint then he inherited the property regardless of the Will on her death (common mistake)
You may need to go on a hunt to see if the original owner was given legal advice when he was added to the deeds under transfer of equity.
Also obtain the deeds and see if it said "title absolute" (joint) or "no disposition to a trust…." (Tenants in common) and then see if any deeds of trust were signed.
It isn’t stealing if she agreed to becoming joint with him. I would also try and find out from the lifetime mortgage co who the advisor was and see if they documented any of this?
People really need to have asset protection strategies to avoid this sort of thing with proper thought out holistic advice. Tenants in common with her half or even 99% directed to a family trust and interest in possession would have sorted this issue and the bloodline would have been protected.
You can do equity release if just one owner, but the spouse has to take legal advice and sign a consent form.
However, leaving him a lifetime interest if she dies makes no sense as he will have to repay the loan.
Perhaps she was persuaded to change the house into joint ownership by the guy, who by your own admission is a conman.
If the house hasn't sold, an enquiry to the land registry would show the current ownership.
However, leaving him a lifetime interest if she dies makes no sense as he will have to repay the loan.
Perhaps she was persuaded to change the house into joint ownership by the guy, who by your own admission is a conman.
If the house hasn't sold, an enquiry to the land registry would show the current ownership.
I'd be going a solicitor and giving them all the facts but wills are signed and witnessed and AFAIK equity release would need to have been done with th mother in law present.
The whole wills thing really hit home recently. My father's partner of nearly ten years had a stroke last Summer ( booster related but that's another story) and died in December. Both in their 70's and lived together for 8 years but never married but they paid bills and upkeep of his property which he still lives in.
She had two children the daughter who was 'a scumbag' she hadn't seen in 15 years and never visited her in hospital or in the care home and when told of her stroke just did 'ok'. The son who she hadn't seen for many years was by all accounts a nasty piece of work, a violent criminal who told her to 'watch her back' the last time he saw her. So for the last 6 months of her life my father visited her and then cared for her at home, paid for everything when she went into care home at nearly £1k a week. When she died she left over £50,000 for her funeral, headstone etc.
When he went to the bank they said the account was frozen and they couldn't pay the funeral bills against the wishes of his partner. Nothing was down in writing and she had no will . So the two children who never cared, never visited and didn't attend their mothers funeral stand to get £25,000 each. My father who was by her side for the last 10 years and was there when she died gets nothing.
The moral of the story is get a will, signed and sealed otherwise it's means nothing.
The whole wills thing really hit home recently. My father's partner of nearly ten years had a stroke last Summer ( booster related but that's another story) and died in December. Both in their 70's and lived together for 8 years but never married but they paid bills and upkeep of his property which he still lives in.
She had two children the daughter who was 'a scumbag' she hadn't seen in 15 years and never visited her in hospital or in the care home and when told of her stroke just did 'ok'. The son who she hadn't seen for many years was by all accounts a nasty piece of work, a violent criminal who told her to 'watch her back' the last time he saw her. So for the last 6 months of her life my father visited her and then cared for her at home, paid for everything when she went into care home at nearly £1k a week. When she died she left over £50,000 for her funeral, headstone etc.
When he went to the bank they said the account was frozen and they couldn't pay the funeral bills against the wishes of his partner. Nothing was down in writing and she had no will . So the two children who never cared, never visited and didn't attend their mothers funeral stand to get £25,000 each. My father who was by her side for the last 10 years and was there when she died gets nothing.
The moral of the story is get a will, signed and sealed otherwise it's means nothing.
This is not directly relevant, a supplier of mine with 2 directors is in financial trouble and the directors signed personal guarantees, one director alleges they were "tricked" into signing.
The expensive advice he got was, if in fact there was fraud, that does not remove the need for the debt to be paid to the outside party and any claim if fraud could be proven is against the other director.
To me it seems the Equity release company will want their money and given they do it day in day out, it seems likely that they will have seen this scenario before and since it's not a new concept there are probably lots of precedents.
If what is at risk is the remainder of the estate after clearing the equity release, that is tough and hopefully a good solicitor can advise but it seems like a very difficult situation.
The expensive advice he got was, if in fact there was fraud, that does not remove the need for the debt to be paid to the outside party and any claim if fraud could be proven is against the other director.
To me it seems the Equity release company will want their money and given they do it day in day out, it seems likely that they will have seen this scenario before and since it's not a new concept there are probably lots of precedents.
If what is at risk is the remainder of the estate after clearing the equity release, that is tough and hopefully a good solicitor can advise but it seems like a very difficult situation.
DaveA8 said:
This is not directly relevant, a supplier of mine with 2 directors is in financial trouble and the directors signed personal guarantees, one director alleges they were "tricked" into signing.
The expensive advice he got was, if in fact there was fraud, that does not remove the need for the debt to be paid to the outside party and any claim if fraud could be proven is against the other director.
To me it seems the Equity release company will want their money and given they do it day in day out, it seems likely that they will have seen this scenario before and since it's not a new concept there are probably lots of precedents.
If what is at risk is the remainder of the estate after clearing the equity release, that is tough and hopefully a good solicitor can advise but it seems like a very difficult situation.
The equity release co will want the money back on second death I expect, not now.The expensive advice he got was, if in fact there was fraud, that does not remove the need for the debt to be paid to the outside party and any claim if fraud could be proven is against the other director.
To me it seems the Equity release company will want their money and given they do it day in day out, it seems likely that they will have seen this scenario before and since it's not a new concept there are probably lots of precedents.
If what is at risk is the remainder of the estate after clearing the equity release, that is tough and hopefully a good solicitor can advise but it seems like a very difficult situation.
m3jappa said:
My mother in laws mum owned a property.
She married a man (who turned out to be a fraudster)
She had a will which stated the property is to be lived in by The man if she dies and then when he dies it goes to the mil.
IA (also) NAL but was this will written before or after she married the man? I believe that marriage invalidates any existing wills. She married a man (who turned out to be a fraudster)
She had a will which stated the property is to be lived in by The man if she dies and then when he dies it goes to the mil.
sleepezy said:
This is one for professional advice offline. Even the lawyers on here (whose opinion I genuinely have the utmost respect for) won't have enough info to opine without getting fully briefed.
If they were joint owners then the house passes to the joint owner regardless of the will.sleepezy said:
This is one for professional advice offline. Even the lawyers on here (whose opinion I genuinely have the utmost respect for) won't have enough info to opine without getting fully briefed.
Given how murky it is, OP probably doesn't have enough info either.Appreciate the OPs MIL appears to have been swindled but I expect equity release companies are very well versed in family/will shenanigans (seeking to get a double dip on the equity) and have the attack dog lawyers to deal with it.
Had similar in our family.
My grandad owns his house, about 10 years ago one of my uncles (one of 4 brothers) borrowed money against it in the form of a mortgage (well his wife did) they are now trying to claim when he dies that the house is theirs to give to their son (my cousin) whos just turned 18. But they stopped paying the mortgage a few years ago and grandad has had to pick up the bill.
Currently going through solicitors on it.
Grandad wants to leave the house to the other 3 brothers (my dad died so technically my mum).
My grandad owns his house, about 10 years ago one of my uncles (one of 4 brothers) borrowed money against it in the form of a mortgage (well his wife did) they are now trying to claim when he dies that the house is theirs to give to their son (my cousin) whos just turned 18. But they stopped paying the mortgage a few years ago and grandad has had to pick up the bill.
Currently going through solicitors on it.
Grandad wants to leave the house to the other 3 brothers (my dad died so technically my mum).
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