Yesterday at Brands
Discussion
From the horses mouth. Yesterday at Brands was the AMOC MESC race. The good news was the car was working, the fuel contamination problem having been traced to particles of chrome plating coming loose from the inside of the injector rail.
And with the car working she was easily competitive amongst the free motorsports class despite just having got an MOT the week before.
I'd done a few mods; I've raisd the wing and given it a more aggressive angle, this has definitely improved the rear end grip because it made the car understeer. I've fed air from the front wing collector through to the central tunnel. A definite improvement, the gear lever doesnt even get warm now.
My best qualifying lap was a 55.156 and that put me 11th on the grid in a field of 18. Thanks to my actually overtaking someone and other people ahead of me falling off I had got to 5th overall when the race had to be stopped - one car was on its roof and another was in flames.
The race was restarted with me 5th on the grid. So I was really amongst the fast boys, that Shelsley just flew past me off the startline as if I was going backwards. The first lap of the restarted race was an absolute blinder, cars jostling for position within a few feet of each other all the way around the circuit. Starting the second lap we all went into Paddock, about 5 or 6 cars together in a group and I took the outside line, well more correctly it was the only bit of track free. I must have lifted off somewhere because coming down the hill I lost the rear end, spun and went rear end first into the gravel. Pity because I would probably had finished 6th overall if I had stayed on.
Unfortunately shortly after I had parked in the gravel a slower motorsports Elise lost it as well and T boned the car. Thankfully the rear wheel took most of the hit, a bit like a bulls eye, so its mainly superficial bodywork, a wishbone and perhaps the tie rod.
So, the lessons;
1) a road legal production M12 can be a competitive race car.
2)The Dymag wheels are strong enough.
3)Don't park at Paddock.
Regards
Paul C
And with the car working she was easily competitive amongst the free motorsports class despite just having got an MOT the week before.
I'd done a few mods; I've raisd the wing and given it a more aggressive angle, this has definitely improved the rear end grip because it made the car understeer. I've fed air from the front wing collector through to the central tunnel. A definite improvement, the gear lever doesnt even get warm now.
My best qualifying lap was a 55.156 and that put me 11th on the grid in a field of 18. Thanks to my actually overtaking someone and other people ahead of me falling off I had got to 5th overall when the race had to be stopped - one car was on its roof and another was in flames.
The race was restarted with me 5th on the grid. So I was really amongst the fast boys, that Shelsley just flew past me off the startline as if I was going backwards. The first lap of the restarted race was an absolute blinder, cars jostling for position within a few feet of each other all the way around the circuit. Starting the second lap we all went into Paddock, about 5 or 6 cars together in a group and I took the outside line, well more correctly it was the only bit of track free. I must have lifted off somewhere because coming down the hill I lost the rear end, spun and went rear end first into the gravel. Pity because I would probably had finished 6th overall if I had stayed on.
Unfortunately shortly after I had parked in the gravel a slower motorsports Elise lost it as well and T boned the car. Thankfully the rear wheel took most of the hit, a bit like a bulls eye, so its mainly superficial bodywork, a wishbone and perhaps the tie rod.
So, the lessons;
1) a road legal production M12 can be a competitive race car.
2)The Dymag wheels are strong enough.
3)Don't park at Paddock.
Regards
Paul C
I really enjoyed yesterday's racing. As Paul says, what with the fire and overturned car (both drivers absolutly fine) it was already turning into a hetic race.
Paul's pace was, given his car is a 2.5l, was stunning. Standing on the pit wall the 55's that Paul was putting in were excellent, although traffic seemed to be heavy at all times during qualifying so I am sure Paul's got more within himself and the car in races to come.
Paul's also clearly got this racing idea well and truely sussed, after the restart he performed a classic "oi you, that's my corner, you get onto the grass" with an Atom who then failed to overtake - so that would have been a guaranteed 6th, and probably if Paul hadn't spun he could have well been on for a podium with just a few mistakes.
Thanks Paul for a great day, and nice to meet Matt and the other owners. We just need a few more Nobles in the race (and before you ask, no, I'm not tempted, I like watching, but just don't have the 'balls' to actually go racing with my own car - it just doesm't appeal!)
J
Paul's pace was, given his car is a 2.5l, was stunning. Standing on the pit wall the 55's that Paul was putting in were excellent, although traffic seemed to be heavy at all times during qualifying so I am sure Paul's got more within himself and the car in races to come.
Paul's also clearly got this racing idea well and truely sussed, after the restart he performed a classic "oi you, that's my corner, you get onto the grass" with an Atom who then failed to overtake - so that would have been a guaranteed 6th, and probably if Paul hadn't spun he could have well been on for a podium with just a few mistakes.
Thanks Paul for a great day, and nice to meet Matt and the other owners. We just need a few more Nobles in the race (and before you ask, no, I'm not tempted, I like watching, but just don't have the 'balls' to actually go racing with my own car - it just doesm't appeal!)
J
Just done some data analysis. I'm interested in cornering grip and lateral G. This seems to me to the best way to decide how close to the limit you are and how consistent you are.
Well my logger reports that the car pulled 1.488 lateral g coming onto the back straight, the corner that I had the tussle with the Atom, and it stayed on the track. Going through Clearways it was pulling a regular 1.3 lateral g.
The spin recorded -3.27 g!
Regards
PauL C
Well my logger reports that the car pulled 1.488 lateral g coming onto the back straight, the corner that I had the tussle with the Atom, and it stayed on the track. Going through Clearways it was pulling a regular 1.3 lateral g.
The spin recorded -3.27 g!
Regards
PauL C
joust said:
Paul's pace was, given his car is a 2.5l, was stunning.
J
Well Justin flatters but whilst its still the 2.5 litre lump Matt Faulks has run his magic wand over the engine. Thanks to his re-map, EBC, IC and BOV (now there's a mouthfull of acronyms) the car has 350 BHP with fly by wire responsiveness. Hit the throttle and it goes, nothing other than pure controllable power. Driving the car in the pouring rain on friday with dry tyres (I don't have any wets) the map he's got is as smooth as the proverbial baby's botty. Usually the problem in torrential rain in turbo cars is feeding in the power. Well with Matts' power upgrade it was as smooth as silk. In the dry on saturday, the day of the race the car could pull as well as the magnificent 5.7 litre Astons and during the qualifying for the endurance race I was able to "repay" a previous qualifying session's passing manouvure on a well know white and blue stripped aggresively driven and cut slick shod Camaro, with consumate ease. Basically I sat on his tail annoying him for half a lap then decided this was enough and drove past him. You can only do that with two things; power and control. For power see Matt Faulks.
For control see Graham Horgan at Plans Motorsport. He fitted the Ohlins and fettles my car, wafting the equivalent magic wand that Matt has for engines over my chassis. I changed the wing and found that the car was understeering (a Noble understeer!). I came in and told him and he dived under the clams for a few minutes and out I went again. Lo and behold the front end was back to the usual Noble sticking like glue behaviour. After the first qualifying I asked him for "a little bit more of what he'd done before" and thus I began the race proper with a car that was as balanced and as benign as any could ask for but which had as much grip as many a pure race car. Just like the M400 but grippier. So for handling and suspension upgrades see Graham Horgan at Plans Motorsport a ring.
For the cynical I pay both Matt and Graham their normal customer charges. This is a genuine compliment free of charge and not an endorsement.
Regards
Paul C
>> Edited by paulcundy on Sunday 21st August 19:09
paulcundy said:
Just done some data analysis.
just done some more. See the hosted jpg versions of the screengrabs from the logger software. Max lateral G recorded during the first half of the race was 1.785 g!
The average maximum lateral g was 1.41.
http://paulcundy.smugmug.com/gallery/359222/4/32926843
This sort of performance from a road legal car is simply mind boggling.
Regards
Paul C
Paul, to say I was gutted when Matt phoned me yesterday to tell me the bad news would be an understatement!!
It's great to hear the ongoing exploits of you and the team... Keep up the good work, and don't let this keep you off the track!!
slinky
587racing.com
It's great to hear the ongoing exploits of you and the team... Keep up the good work, and don't let this keep you off the track!!
slinky
587racing.com
Nice to chat with Joust in the carpark,...and have a look at the M400,...think I'll stick to the Honda power for me Exige plans tho (oh and a couple of quid in the bank eh 
)
Anyway looks like you were going well Paul until the Paddock Hill business
Photos from Tap and I can be found at the end of this click....enjoy!
) Anyway looks like you were going well Paul until the Paddock Hill business
Photos from Tap and I can be found at the end of this click....enjoy!Paul,
Was reading a couple of technical articles, and one is about wing end plates. I think it would apply to the nobles wing. Hopefully you can read this link :
www.jabbasworld.net/viewtopic.php?t=26101
You may have to register.
Also a nice article about why wider tyres give more grip, although sadly the first in the series isn't there.
Dan
Paul,
even on My M400 in Monza with normal tyres (pzero Corsa) not slick and only intercooler modified and more camber I'm very very fast, faster than other immatriculated regular cars. I put on my car an Aim telemetry, even on mine I see normally 1,3 to 1,4g laterla forces on stabilized corners, but if you see pick at 1,7...as seen in your are due to bumping or (the white and red cement thing that are on the corner that i don't know the name in english sorry...even I saw more then 2g of pick when you pass brutal over the bumper) so 1,4 for a regular car with road legal tyres is something incredible, a friend of mine has a Ferrari Enzo that arrives maximum at a bit more than 1,2...
[img]www.track4fun.com/public/FG-25-1-2005_17-49-3_976_%20%20%20Noblemonza2201amod.JPG[/img]
even on My M400 in Monza with normal tyres (pzero Corsa) not slick and only intercooler modified and more camber I'm very very fast, faster than other immatriculated regular cars. I put on my car an Aim telemetry, even on mine I see normally 1,3 to 1,4g laterla forces on stabilized corners, but if you see pick at 1,7...as seen in your are due to bumping or (the white and red cement thing that are on the corner that i don't know the name in english sorry...even I saw more then 2g of pick when you pass brutal over the bumper) so 1,4 for a regular car with road legal tyres is something incredible, a friend of mine has a Ferrari Enzo that arrives maximum at a bit more than 1,2...
[img]www.track4fun.com/public/FG-25-1-2005_17-49-3_976_%20%20%20Noblemonza2201amod.JPG[/img]
DanH said:
Paul,
Was reading a couple of technical articles, and one is about wing end plates. I think it would apply to the nobles wing.
The air that is going over the wing will be spilling off the end. A clue is what Lee has done to his M12-2 or look at the Shelby, Atoms or Exiges in the same race. J
phantomlover said:
Paul,
even on My M400 in Monza with normal tyres (pzero Corsa) not slick and only intercooler modified and more camber I'm very very fast, faster than other immatriculated regular cars. I put on my car an Aim telemetry, even on mine I see normally 1,3 to 1,4g laterla forces on stabilized corners, but if you see pick at 1,7...as seen in your are due to bumping or (the white and red cement thing that are on the corner that i don't know the name in english sorry...even I saw more then 2g of pick when you pass brutal over the bumper) so 1,4 for a regular car with road legal tyres is something incredible, a friend of mine has a Ferrari Enzo that arrives maximum at a bit more than 1,2...
[img]www.track4fun.com/public/FG-25-1-2005_17-49-3_976_%20%20%20Noblemonza2201amod.JPG[/img]
I agree, a 1.7 is pretty unbeleivable. However I beleive the logger (a DL1) and that's what it says. I suspect this is a peak and that its at the transition from Surtees to Mclaren when the car is thrown sideways.
Regards
Paul C
joust said:
Paul,
Was reading a couple of technical articles, and one is about wing end plates. I think it would apply to the nobles wing.
J
Funny you should mention that but end plates were just what Matt was talking about on Saturday. The article says they increase downforce at the same time as reducing drag.
Regards
Paul C
paulcundy said:From memory (it was a long time ago I did fluid dynamics in my degree) they stop 'delaminating' of the airflow which causes drag, and because you get more air therefore over the wing, you get more downforce.
Funny you should mention that but end plates were just what Matt was talking about on Saturday. The article says they increase downforce at the same time as reducing drag.
There are some books around that I used from the libary during it - if you want I could have a dig around, otherwise there are three books listed under 'racing car aerodynamics' books on amazon
J
joust said:
Funny you should mention that but end plates were just what Matt was talking about on Saturday. The article says they increase downforce at the same time as reducing drag.
From memory (it was a long time ago I did fluid dynamics in my degree) they stop 'delaminating' of the airflow which causes drag, and because you get more air therefore over the wing, you get more downforce.
Spot on Justin. I've got a few Aero tweeks planned for Pauls car which should help him go around those Atoms even quicker! Larger end plates being just one of them.
Matt
Gassing Station | Noble | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff