Buying a 996 / 997 - independent inspection or dealer
Discussion
Hi,
I'm looking to buy my first Porsche later this year. Probably a 996 but maybe a 997 if the pennies equate to one of those by time of purchase. I do know my way around a car but as it's such a relatively expensive (to me) purchase and well documented issues I feel i'd like to get an independent inspection or buy from a dealer who specialises in the cars.
An independent inspection could open up the second hand market to me so has anyone got recommendations of a mobile type service that would do this?
And for those that buy through dealers who are the go to people to buy 911s from in the 996/997 age bracket? I'm based near Cambridge but would travel anywhere for the right car. Friends Green isn't far away and in my relatively inexperienced Porsche eyes they appear to prep the cars well but charge top end for it too, no bad thing in my eyes as I'd rather buy right first time.
Any other ideas welcomed on sourcing the car. Dream is an early 996 Aero kitted manual Carrera 2 (or 4) but aiming for £19-22k bracket it may not be possible.
Cheers
I'm looking to buy my first Porsche later this year. Probably a 996 but maybe a 997 if the pennies equate to one of those by time of purchase. I do know my way around a car but as it's such a relatively expensive (to me) purchase and well documented issues I feel i'd like to get an independent inspection or buy from a dealer who specialises in the cars.
An independent inspection could open up the second hand market to me so has anyone got recommendations of a mobile type service that would do this?
And for those that buy through dealers who are the go to people to buy 911s from in the 996/997 age bracket? I'm based near Cambridge but would travel anywhere for the right car. Friends Green isn't far away and in my relatively inexperienced Porsche eyes they appear to prep the cars well but charge top end for it too, no bad thing in my eyes as I'd rather buy right first time.
Any other ideas welcomed on sourcing the car. Dream is an early 996 Aero kitted manual Carrera 2 (or 4) but aiming for £19-22k bracket it may not be possible.
Cheers
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
p4cks said:
Buy a Hartech inspected (or better still, repaired) or just don't bother. If it't not already gone bang, it's upcoming.
Have thought about that and adding £10k (by loan) to my search price and buying a 997.2 instead which appear to not have issues. p4cks said:
Buy a Hartech inspected (or better still, repaired) or just don't bother. If it't not already gone bang, it's upcoming.
I wouldn’t necessarily agree, but it’s a point of view I understand and largely all down to risk.For £19-22k, if you can’t stretch to a 911 but fancy a Gen 2, Cayman would be the answer. Otherwise, I’d get an early 996 3.4 and be very wary of 997 3.8s.
Re: inspections. Do not discount OPCs - they’d be able to do a go-over for you (they did for us, when looking for a 968 and did a detailed report on the chain tensioners, which was a model-specific foible they knew all about).
Indeed, there’s a tech at OPC Cambridge that the 996 register of the PCGB recommends reaching out to with tech queries.
A friend of mine has had a great experience recently buying and also selling a car with William Francis who are based nr Cambridge. He sold his Hartech engined 996 on SOR through them and bought a Cayman GTS they had. Their level of preparation was impressive for an independent & Charlie is very knowledgeable on 996/997s & I can say their range of cars they have for sale is quite impressive too & it's worth a trip out to see them.
I'm in St.Albans so not far.
Indies I'd suggest:
- Portiacraft, Mill Hill (my first 3.2 Carrera)
- 911 Virgin, Iver
- RSJ Sportscars, Slough (my 996 turbo)
- RPM Technik, nr Leighton Buzzard
- Ashgood, Horton nr Heathrow
- JZ Machtech (Less low end cars)
- Cameron Cars, Bath
Portiacraft are no frills but will have the 996 and 997's. I'd call the others as they may get the odd car in if you give them a spec e.g. manual, coupe, 2wd.
Indies I'd suggest:
- Portiacraft, Mill Hill (my first 3.2 Carrera)
- 911 Virgin, Iver
- RSJ Sportscars, Slough (my 996 turbo)
- RPM Technik, nr Leighton Buzzard
- Ashgood, Horton nr Heathrow
- JZ Machtech (Less low end cars)
- Cameron Cars, Bath
Portiacraft are no frills but will have the 996 and 997's. I'd call the others as they may get the odd car in if you give them a spec e.g. manual, coupe, 2wd.
Edited by g7jhp on Wednesday 8th February 21:02
Nice one I will check out those dealers.
RE the Cayman .2 that was/is also a consideration and perhaps use it as a stepping stone to a 997.2. The only trouble is a 911 is a little bit more practical and my small kids are still at an age where they would just about fit so the car could be used more often on say the school run, clubs, errands as my kids aren't old enough to stay at home alone yet.
I do need to give some more thought about what I am going to use this car for. It's defintely not a daily and I'm consolidating 3 old modern classic cars and their parts to get a Porsche and tbh most of my trips were alone but then again I didn't really drive them as they were always being renovated - welding, bare metal resprays, engine rebuilds - I don't really want to be in that constant cycle anymore. With the Porcshe I am hoping to get use out of it by getting involved in the Porsche community as have seen it is pretty active with events and trips, perhaps some track days and enjoy cleaning it.
RE the Cayman .2 that was/is also a consideration and perhaps use it as a stepping stone to a 997.2. The only trouble is a 911 is a little bit more practical and my small kids are still at an age where they would just about fit so the car could be used more often on say the school run, clubs, errands as my kids aren't old enough to stay at home alone yet.
I do need to give some more thought about what I am going to use this car for. It's defintely not a daily and I'm consolidating 3 old modern classic cars and their parts to get a Porsche and tbh most of my trips were alone but then again I didn't really drive them as they were always being renovated - welding, bare metal resprays, engine rebuilds - I don't really want to be in that constant cycle anymore. With the Porcshe I am hoping to get use out of it by getting involved in the Porsche community as have seen it is pretty active with events and trips, perhaps some track days and enjoy cleaning it.
MrC986 said:
A friend of mine has had a great experience recently buying and also selling a car with William Francis who are based nr Cambridge. He sold his Hartech engined 996 on SOR through them and bought a Cayman GTS they had. Their level of preparation was impressive for an independent & Charlie is very knowledgeable on 996/997s & I can say their range of cars they have for sale is quite impressive too & it's worth a trip out to see them.
I did come across them and they looked good too, they also have a aero kitted carrera 2 in stock that they have prep'd and sold before in my budget but not ready for another month or 2. From PPE, purchase and servicing i have used 9e in Horley and highly recommend. The previous owner used OPC from day 1 and the list of items that needed correcting was dismal.
Personally go for an indie as they will look after you so much better IMHO.
Re the Hartech comments yes agreed but not every 996/997 engine has gone pop and they charge 5 figures for the engine rebuild and you pay alot more for cars with their engines.
Personally go for an indie as they will look after you so much better IMHO.
Re the Hartech comments yes agreed but not every 996/997 engine has gone pop and they charge 5 figures for the engine rebuild and you pay alot more for cars with their engines.
Out of the 996/997 group I think the 997.1 is the sweet spot but you should worry about the engine and factor that in. A clear bore scope at purchase doesn’t mean you won’t have a problem 5000 miles later.
My choice would be 997.1 with full Hartech rebuild or buy a car with a future rebuild in mind. I pick ours up from Hartech next week. It is a 65k 997.1 C4s that needed a new clutch and coolant lines etc so we went for a pre-emptive rebuild and upgrade to 4.1. And, lo and behold, on stripping down it had scoring in cylinder 6. Pampered from new, over serviced and symptomless. Sorry about the photo.
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My choice would be 997.1 with full Hartech rebuild or buy a car with a future rebuild in mind. I pick ours up from Hartech next week. It is a 65k 997.1 C4s that needed a new clutch and coolant lines etc so we went for a pre-emptive rebuild and upgrade to 4.1. And, lo and behold, on stripping down it had scoring in cylinder 6. Pampered from new, over serviced and symptomless. Sorry about the photo.
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Discombobulate said:
Out of the 996/997 group I think the 997.1 is the sweet spot but you should worry about the engine and factor that in. A clear bore scope at purchase doesn’t mean you won’t have a problem 5000 miles later.
My choice would be 997.1 with full Hartech rebuild or buy a car with a future rebuild in mind. I pick ours up from Hartech next week. It is a 65k 997.1 C4s that needed a new clutch and coolant lines etc so we went for a pre-emptive rebuild and upgrade to 4.1. And, lo and behold, on stripping down it had scoring in cylinder 6. Pampered from new, over serviced and symptomless. Sorry about the photo.
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Cheers for that and coincides with a Hartech build youtube series I was watching last night about a guy that went from 3.4 to 3.7. The total cost was about £23k. My choice would be 997.1 with full Hartech rebuild or buy a car with a future rebuild in mind. I pick ours up from Hartech next week. It is a 65k 997.1 C4s that needed a new clutch and coolant lines etc so we went for a pre-emptive rebuild and upgrade to 4.1. And, lo and behold, on stripping down it had scoring in cylinder 6. Pampered from new, over serviced and symptomless. Sorry about the photo.
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Having spent similar numbers on bodywork on various old cars in recent years that is not somewhere I want to end up anytime soon. The more I think about it a 997.2 or 987.2 makes more sense for an easier life though the cayman doesn't have the rear the seats I might need and the 997.2 is out of range without borrowing or dipping into other savings pots which I do not want to do.
Edit to add perhaps a 997.2 is possible if I compromise on miles and get one with 90-120k on it, seem to start around £28.5k with full history.
Edited by VeeReihenmotor6 on Monday 13th February 08:42
I am also in for a 911 and based on lots of research I am eying a late ('07 /'08) 997.1 manual. I intend do keep the 911 for a long time as I expect the 997.1 keeps the value.
How is your experience with the named independent dealers in terms of their pricing. The better ones are a tack more expensive but you get also the service I hear.
Are their car prices fixed or can you still negotiate with them? The good independent apparently have immaculate cars to offer..
How is your experience with the named independent dealers in terms of their pricing. The better ones are a tack more expensive but you get also the service I hear.
Are their car prices fixed or can you still negotiate with them? The good independent apparently have immaculate cars to offer..
The dealers do tend to price higher than say a private sale. Some dealers seem to spend a lot of time and effort on preparing the cars for sale and that's reflected in the price (friends green for example).
I've sold my corrado for more than I expected but now have the horrible task of sorting through loads of parts to sell off.
If I buy I am only interested in ones that have had the full rebuild at Hartech as they appear to only be a few grand more.
I've sold my corrado for more than I expected but now have the horrible task of sorting through loads of parts to sell off.
If I buy I am only interested in ones that have had the full rebuild at Hartech as they appear to only be a few grand more.
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
The dealers do tend to price higher than say a private sale. Some dealers seem to spend a lot of time and effort on preparing the cars for sale and that's reflected in the price (friends green for example).
I've sold my corrado for more than I expected but now have the horrible task of sorting through loads of parts to sell off.
If I buy I am only interested in ones that have had the full rebuild at Hartech as they appear to only be a few grand more.
That's exactly what I see in the market as well. I was just wondering if there is still room for negotiation or are their prices pretty much fixed?I've sold my corrado for more than I expected but now have the horrible task of sorting through loads of parts to sell off.
If I buy I am only interested in ones that have had the full rebuild at Hartech as they appear to only be a few grand more.
Also, do for example RSJ Sportscars, Slough also sell rebuild by Hartech or do you find those cars more on the private sell side?
Furthermore, some independent also state "FSH plus we carried out a full engine rebuild to eliminate bore scoring" or "FSH we have carried out a bore check", but I guess that's not the same as it would have been done by Hartech (those are statements on currently on sales cars by Portiacraft.
I am reluctant to buy private, even if they have a documented Hartech rebuild. I am just missing the deep knowledge.
Thanks for the good feedback here!
I've also had a read of Portiacrafts website and they have a helpful section on there about IMS, bore score and also for cars they sell they offer a cap at £4k on an engine rebuild if bore score happens. A nice "insurance" or at least known palatable cost if the worst did happen.
They mention that the liners come from with Hartech or Westwood.
For me and my risk adversion a dealer is worth paying a premium on the car to have some of this assurances.
They mention that the liners come from with Hartech or Westwood.
For me and my risk adversion a dealer is worth paying a premium on the car to have some of this assurances.
Good afternoon all,
Coming back to this thread as I am still looking. I visited a few specialists the past few months and had some good experience. However this one is quite far and I cannot find any information so I was wondering if somebody came across this specialist? Does anybody have experience with https://www.elmstoneclassics.co.uk/ ? Seems a family run business but I can find very little information. Can be a good and bad sign.
Thanks for sharing if anybody has experience with them.
Coming back to this thread as I am still looking. I visited a few specialists the past few months and had some good experience. However this one is quite far and I cannot find any information so I was wondering if somebody came across this specialist? Does anybody have experience with https://www.elmstoneclassics.co.uk/ ? Seems a family run business but I can find very little information. Can be a good and bad sign.
Thanks for sharing if anybody has experience with them.
p4cks said:
Buy a Hartech inspected (or better still, repaired) or just don't bother. If it't not already gone bang, it's upcoming.
No disrespect but you're perpetuating a myth.Yes it happens, but we only tend to hear about the issues when something goes wrong.
You don't hear when things are fine, for example my cars -
1998 996 Carrera 2 manual, aero kit - 87k miles, not gone bang, IMS changed at 65k miles and guess what nothing wrong with the one taken out
2000 996 Carrera 4 Tip, 109k miles, original IMS, not gone bang
Done over 25k miles across both cars in the last 3 years
To the OP, my advice for what little benefit it may be is look at plenty, don't jump in, ask around PCGB (Porsche Club GB) and TIPEC (The Independent Porsche Enthusiasts Club), join their local Facebook Groups, see if you can go to the odd meeting. More than often than not someone in a group is selling a car and you'll invariably find these cars are well looked after and also used regularly which is equally important. Alternatively if you are in the North West my C2 aero is going up for sale soon as have an Aston shaped itch to scratch !
Good luck
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