Hit up the rear but (according to his insurer) I’m at fault

[Rockettvr]

Not sure if this is the right place to post mods please move if appropriate
Morning all
Quick run down ::
Last October on my way to work in work van
At entry to lights controlled roundabout
3 lanes at the entry 2 lanes on roundabout
left hand lane has left hand arrow painted on floor to take immediate left (almost back on yourself )
Middle lane has straight ahead arrow on floor
Rh lane has nothing
I want to go straight and I’m in RH Lane there’s a bmw in the centre
Lights go green we move forward I intend to go straight ahead and fall in behind the bmw as we reach the straight ahead exit. go to take the straight ahead exit but the bmw that was in the Centre lane decides he now wants to continue all the way round the roundabout to go right
I brake hard to allow him to go past and then I can take the exit I’m then hit from behind
Slow speed shunt 5mph ish damage to bumpers and sub structure just behind.

Bloke gets out shouting about I’m in the wrong lane
I point out to him that the bmw has cut me off and anyway he was obviously going too fast and following too close otherwise he would have stopped in time
Photos taken and details swapped and made sure we are both un injured we continue with our day. Passed details of accident on to my boss , insurance co asked for a report which I submitted and then a week or so ago I have to take van to a dealer to have the damage inspected

Then on Friday I get a large envelope from the other party’s insurance co with a claim that I’m at fault and asking for the repair costs to the other party van to be forwarded to them asap.
I’ve no idea where they got my address from as I only gave my work contact details and I’ve no idea why they sent it to me as my work insurer has already contacted them making a claim for the damage to my work van
This is from the paperwork they sent to me justifying the claim





1st I’d dispute im in the wrong lane
2nd even if I were and I had to stop In order to try and get in the right lane it doesn’t mean I can be held at fault if someone then rams into the back of me

My fear is that my insurance will decide it’s not worth the effort to contest this (his claim is about £2000) and settle on a 50:50 fault and I’ll have to declare such to my own private insurance with a subsequent knock on effect to my premiums


Long story short guy going too fast too close rear ends me - his insurance claim it’s my fault for being in the wrong lane and stopping to try and access the correct lane

[Grumps.]

Just let your insurance company deal with it.

It’s what they are paid for.

[ecsrobin]

Rockettvr said:

Not sure if this is the right place to post mods please move if appropriate
Morning all
Quick run down ::
Last October on my way to work in work van
At entry to lights controlled roundabout
3 lanes at the entry 2 lanes on roundabout
left hand lane has left hand arrow painted on floor to take immediate left (almost back on yourself )
Middle lane has straight ahead arrow on floor
Rh lane has nothing
I want to go straight and I’m in RH Lane there’s a bmw in the centre
Lights go green we move forward I intend to go straight ahead and fall in behind the bmw as we reach the straight ahead exit. go to take the straight ahead exit but the bmw that was in the Centre lane decides he now wants to continue all the way round the roundabout to go right
I brake hard to allow him to go past and then I can take the exit I’m then hit from behind
Slow speed shunt 5mph ish damage to bumpers and sub structure just behind.

Bloke gets out shouting about I’m in the wrong lane
I point out to him that the bmw has cut me off and anyway he was obviously going too fast and following too close otherwise he would have stopped in time
Photos taken and details swapped and made sure we are both un injured we continue with our day. Passed details of accident on to my boss , insurance co asked for a report which I submitted and then a week or so ago I have to take van to a dealer to have the damage inspected

Then on Friday I get a large envelope from the other party’s insurance co with a claim that I’m at fault and asking for the repair costs to the other party van to be forwarded to them asap.
I’ve no idea where they got my address from as I only gave my work contact details and I’ve no idea why they sent it to me as my work insurer has already contacted them making a claim for the damage to my work van
This is from the paperwork they sent to me justifying the claim





1st I’d dispute im in the wrong lane
2nd even if I were and I had to stop In order to try and get in the right lane it doesn’t mean I can be held at fault if someone then rams into the back of me

My fear is that my insurance will decide it’s not worth the effort to contest this (his claim is about £2000) and settle on a 50:50 fault and I’ll have to declare such to my own private insurance with a subsequent knock on effect to my premiums


Long story short guy going too fast too close rear ends me - his insurance claim it’s my fault for being in the wrong lane and stopping to try and access the correct lane

Insurance have only just asked after 3-4 months to get the damage assessed?

[The Moose]

Your description of events is very different from theirs.

I’d just forward this to your insurer/employer fleet team along with an explanation of how their description is incorrect - especially if you have photos at the scene to prove your position.

ETA: the nature of the damage on both vehicles should be able to explain if your story of events or his is accurate.

Edited by The Moose on Sunday 12th February 13:35

[Rockettvr]

ecsrobin said:

Insurance have only just asked after 3-4 months to get the damage assessed?

fk up from my companies insurer-
Accident coincided with next years premium being due - it was paid but insurer came back to say they wanted a higher premium due to the claim and basically sat on it while the argument went back and forth about the extra charge. It then went quiet until my boss chased them and then they tried to say that they weren’t dealing with it because we’d employed some agency to act on our behalf ???

[Rockettvr]

The Moose said:

Your description of events is very different from theirs.

I’d just forward this to your insurer/employer fleet team along with an explanation of how their description is incorrect - especially if you have photos at the scene to prove your position.

ETA: the nature of the damage on both vehicles should be able to explain if your story of events or his is accurate.

Edited by The Moose on Sunday 12th February 13:35

Not too different
No dispute about me ending up stopped on the roundabout although we differ on why
Let’s assume that their version is correct and I was trying to change lanes but was unable due to traffic - how is it any way my fault that their client “had to brake and skidded in to “ me ???
It’s just too fast and too close !!

My damage

[MrBen986]

The paperwork will likely be a County Court Claim Form. It has to be sent to you as the defendant, but the Insurers will deal with it for you. They have likely issued because your own insurers have been fighting your corner (or just haven't been responding), and the other side think they can win if they threaten court. Nothing unusual, just make sure your insurers are on it.

[lost in espace]

I think rear dashcams are more valuable than front ones, a front one will record you hitting someone else. A rear will record them hitting you.

[RSTurboPaul]

Have you spoken to your work about it if the other party are sending letters to your own personal address?

[The Moose]

Rockettvr said:

The Moose said:

Your description of events is very different from theirs.

I’d just forward this to your insurer/employer fleet team along with an explanation of how their description is incorrect - especially if you have photos at the scene to prove your position.

ETA: the nature of the damage on both vehicles should be able to explain if your story of events or his is accurate.

Edited by The Moose on Sunday 12th February 13:35

Not too different
No dispute about me ending up stopped on the roundabout although we differ on why
Let’s assume that their version is correct and I was trying to change lanes but was unable due to traffic - how is it any way my fault that their client “had to brake and skidded in to “ me ???
It’s just too fast and too close !!

My damage

They are very different (and no need to be quite so defensive!). That difference works in your favor.

That damage doesn’t look like it could have been done if you stopped your vehicle across all 3 lanes. Due to the angle of the other vehicle’s travel. That then makes him totally unreliable. That’s how I ended up ‘winning’ my roundabout incident when everyone wanted to settle 50:50.

[Rockettvr]

The Moose said:

They are very different (and no need to be quite so defensive!). That difference works in your favor.

That damage doesn’t look like it could have been done if you stopped your vehicle across all 3 lanes. Due to the angle of the other vehicle’s travel. That then makes him totally unreliable. That’s how I ended up ‘winning’ my roundabout incident when everyone wanted to settle 50:50.

Sorry for the tone but find this very annoying as I feel it’s very clear cut (I stopped he didn’t) and it’s somewhat stressful having these documents sent to me personally (even though I never gave any personal details other than my name, only work ones!!)
These only arrived Friday so unable to contact work until tomorrow morning about it

[Sensibleboy]

lost in espace said:

I think rear dashcams are more valuable than front ones, a front one will record you hitting someone else. A rear will record them hitting you.

Just a front dash cam will still prove that you were or weren't doing something. Anything is better than nothing though.

[The Moose]

Rockettvr said:

Sorry for the tone but find this very annoying as I feel it’s very clear cut (I stopped he didn’t) and it’s somewhat stressful having these documents sent to me personally (even though I never gave any personal details other than my name, only work ones!!)
These only arrived Friday so unable to contact work until tomorrow morning about it

You said that it’s a 2 lane roundabout.

My guess is your van is around 5m in length…or longer..

If their statement was correct and you changed lanes and “suddenly stopped on the angle across all lanes”, then the damage wouldn’t be pretty central on the rear bumper of your van…and the angle of damage wouldn’t be straight as this clearly is.

I presume you still have the photos of the vehicles as they sat on the road - this should also help to demonstrate your point of view.

As I said, if you can use the damage to prove the other guy is lying then, in my experience, they’ll side with you. That’s what happened when I had someone side-swipe me on a roundabout - the other guy kept changing his story while mine stayed the same. His insurance company took my side after he told 3 contradictory versions of his story.

I wouldn't worry about this turning up at your home address - they probably have your address from your drivers license or some other document. Don't sweat it.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Rockettvr said:

I brake hard to allow him to go past and then I can take the exit

You don't say emergency only that it was more courtesy?

I've seen a few courtesy brake/slow right down to allow someone out or change lanes that have caused a near miss or etc.

At best for you it's 50:50

[MikeM6]

I might have missed something, so please forgive me if I have read this wrong, but you say you used the right hand lane to go straight on, was this onto a dual carriageway or a single carriageway? I ask as you say you intended to "fall in behind the BMW".

If a dual carriageway then fair enough and you can ignore the rest.

If it was a single carriageway, then I wonder why you took the right hand lane to go straight on? You should have been in the central lane, even more so as markings advised that was the lane to use, but even without the markings you should have been central or left lane.

The BMW appears to have assumed you were turning right and may have been trying to undertake you, so did you indicate right at all? I think the driver was very foolish and reckless, but you also misled him with your signalling and being in the wrong lane. So you may have contributed to his/her decision making.

When you did then leave the roundabout, did you signal that you were about to do so and we're you moving when the car hit you? Or were you stationary? I ask as I wonder if you were in the wrong position and the driver who hit you had no reason to believe you were about to cut across them to exit. That would explain the insurance company position.

[davek_964]

I was hit on a roundabout a few years ago by somebody who was in the wrong (inside) lane but tried to exit early and clipped my rear wing. I informed my insurers and was told that "virtually all roundabout accidents end up 50/50 because everybody will claim the other vehicle was in the wrong lane / changed lanes".

I was fortunate, that a few hours later the other party admitted liability. But yours seems unlikely to do that.

If you argue the case (i.e. make your insurers argue the case) I suspect it will end up 50/50.

[Rockettvr]

To try and answer some of the above
Straight ahead Exit from roundabout is 2 lanes but very quickly filters down to one - I travel that route a lot and it’s always a pain ayou reach the pinch point with people trying to filter in so my usual approach is to allow the car to my left to get slightly ahead then tuck in behind before we get to that point - does that make sense only in this case the guy continued round the roundabout
The description of me being across all lanes is incorrect- it’s only 2 lanes and only the front near side wheel + wing where in the outside (left) lane the rest of the van LWB was in the inside (right) lane.

Am I being thick here ?? I thought it was pretty clear cut - I wanted to turn off the roundabout but was prevented by another vehicle doing something unexpected (the bmw carrying on round the roundabout) causing me to have to brake and then I’m hit from the rear because the guy behind is too close and going to fast
Or is that to simplistic???

Edited by Rockettvr on Monday 13th February 08:24

[Rockettvr]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

You don't say emergency only that it was more courtesy?

I've seen a few courtesy brake/slow right down to allow someone out or change lanes that have caused a near miss or etc.

At best for you it's 50:50

Sorry yes emergency otherwise I would have t boned the bmw - came to a complete stop

[davek_964]

Rockettvr said:

Am I being thick here ?? I thought it was pretty clear cut - I wanted to turn off the roundabout but was prevented by another vehicle doing something unexpected (the bmw carrying on round the roundabout) causing me to have to brake and then I’m hit from the rear because the guy behind is too close and going to fast
Or is that to simplistic???

It is too simplistic because it was on a roundabout and that seems to make a significant difference to insurance claims (rightly or wrongly).

[Smurfsarepeopletoo]

It sounds like they are saying that the other party was in the left lane, and you have changed lanes and then braked, and the other party has hit you, if thats the case, then it would be classed as your fault.

You need to find out what there allegations are, and give as much information to your insurers as possible, images of the location, google maps links, coloured lines on the maps images showing where you and the third party were, and showing intended destinations.

Hopefully the other party will admit they were in the same lane as you, if not, then its likely a 50/50 claim.