RE: Honda mulls formal return to F1 prior to exit
RE: Honda mulls formal return to F1 prior to exit
Monday 20th February 2023

Honda mulls formal F1 return prior to exit

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in - Honda president admits keeping 'close eye' on F1


When it comes to F1, Honda seemingly can’t help itself. The tale of its exit from the sport in 2008 is an oft-repeated story of nearly-but-not-quite (even though the subsequent Brawn team famously won with Mercedes engines) but the firm is a perennial returnee to the grid - and it’s easy to see why. The pinnacle of motorsport is also the ultimate showcase for engineering excellence, and Honda prides itself as one of the world’s foremost experts in turning petrol from dead dinosaur into prodigious speed. And while its record as a race team might fall someway short of greatness, its reputation as an engine-builder is mightily impressive. 

Consequently, news that it might yet reappear in the pit lane after its deal with Red Bull runs its course is worthy of front-page news (well, sort of). How do we know this? Because none other than its President, Koji Watanabe, remarked on the possibility when asked about it at a press conference earlier today. "For the time being, we would like to keep a close eye on where F1 is going and just see how things go," he said. "We don't have any concrete decisions on whether we will be going back."

However, while it might not be ‘concrete’ yet (and despite the Honda name returning to Red Bull cars this season) the firm has already indicated its interest by registering as a ‘power unit’ manufacturer for the new regulations that kick off in 2026 - the regulations that have already seen Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull (i.e. Ford), Alpine and Audi signal their intention to build engines for a new hybrid era. The Japanese firm just hasn’t confirmed whether or not it will make good on that impulse - partly, you suspect, because the regulations remain a work in progress.

"We are curious about where F1 is going and how is that going to look with more electrification happening,” continued Watanabe, sagely. The reasons for what seems a likely change of heart are not hard to fathom. Honda has previously said it was planning on leaving F1 because it wanted to spend more time and resources on carbon-neutral tech - but in the intervening years the changes set to occur in 2026 have become more attractive to the manufacturer: “we think F1's future direction is in line with our target. That is why we have decided to register as a manufacturer of a power-unit.”

Of course, the other thing that’s happened is that the sport has enjoyed a massive popularity surge - driven by a number of factors - that has reinvigorated its status as the place to be. The future involvement of Volkswagen (via Audi) and Ford (via Red Bull) is hugely significant, and while Honda can point to considerable recent success with Red Bull, it would likely consider any additional triumph beyond 2026 an even weightier feather in its corporate cap, given the proximity of close rivals. 

Moreover, it is unlikely to want for new partners. “After we made the registration, we have been contacted by multiple F1 teams,” noted Watanabe. In fact, the BBC is apparently convinced that McLaren is already among those who leaped for the phone. Aston Martin and Williams are also among those teams without a dance partner, and while placing any bets would be foolhardy (to say the least) at this impossibly early stage, Honda’s record of 89 victories and 223 podiums as an engine builder does rather speak for itself. Of course, it’s all speculation at the moment anyway with a final decision pending. "But, from the perspective of technological development, we think that knowing that this is being part of F1 is going to help us with technological development. So that is where we are.” Not protesting too much, in other words.


Author
Discussion

Steamer

Original Poster:

14,187 posts

243 months

Monday 20th February 2023
quotequote all
Well that is one way of side-stepping working with Horner I suppose...


ManyMotors

1,108 posts

128 months

Monday 20th February 2023
quotequote all
The margins in automobile manufacturing are too thin for F1's questionable advertising benefit. And the idea of an F1 'power unit' still has too much carbon involved. There is a reason F1 has become the darling of the Middle East.

re33

357 posts

194 months

Monday 20th February 2023
quotequote all
ManyMotors said:
The margins in automobile manufacturing are too thin for F1's questionable advertising benefit. And the idea of an F1 'power unit' still has too much carbon involved. There is a reason F1 has become the darling of the Middle East.
Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren, Alfa Romeo, Ford, Alpine and Audi would appear to disagree...

forzaminardi

2,298 posts

217 months

Monday 20th February 2023
quotequote all
ManyMotors said:
The margins in automobile manufacturing are too thin for F1's questionable advertising benefit. And the idea of an F1 'power unit' still has too much carbon involved. There is a reason F1 has become the darling of the Middle East.
Cost cap + increasing sponsor interest makes this comment look fatuous. I suspect Honda, Mercedes, Renault (Alpine), Ferrari, and VW (Audi), Ford (not to mention GM (Cadillac), Porsche and Hyundai) know a little bit about the costs and benefits of F1 than you do - hence this article covering the topic of automobile manufacturers considering F1 entry. In fact, Mercedes' F1 team is of itself a profit centre, accruing its shareholders more money than it costs them to run it, even leaving aside the presumed brand image enhancement and product sales resulting.

On the point of Honda's F1 strategy, though, we could call it the hokey kokey approach - "in, out, shake it all about". They've not really made great decisions in F1 (from a competitive point of view anyway), since about 1990. I guess the shift to STR/Red bull was quite smart after the McLaren debacle - that's about it.

MDifficult

2,840 posts

215 months

Tuesday 21st February 2023
quotequote all
ManyMotors said:
The margins in automobile manufacturing are too thin for F1's questionable advertising benefit. And the idea of an F1 'power unit' still has too much carbon involved. There is a reason F1 has become the darling of the Middle East.
You may well have been right 10 years ago, when the top teams were spending $300m+, the sport was still seen as a niche activity for rich Europeans, Japanese and South-Americans but those day are long gone.

The cost cap means F1 is relatively cheap, engine supply is regulated, the 'show' is quite a bit more exciting (even if the purists perhaps don't like it as much) and it's reaching a much bigger audience, especially the US (finally! again, the purists don't like it but its where ALL the big money is in sports).

Yes, you can argue that F1 is dumbing down to appeal to a broader (more US-based) audience while the cost cap restricts the technical warfare of days gone by, and maybe that the sport itself is poorer for it. But as a financial investment for brands, motoring or otherwise, it's never been healthier.

garypotter

2,073 posts

180 months

Tuesday 21st February 2023
quotequote all
Soooo with Honda pulling out a few seasons ago but still working on Engines, design manufacturing even under a new banner does the costs go against that years annual return with cost capping???? or is this another way REDbks can bypass the rules set by the governing body to over spend.....

Sorry they overspent on catering. And the very large brown envelope to Mr Massi....


ManyMotors

1,108 posts

128 months

Tuesday 21st February 2023
quotequote all
re33 said:
ManyMotors said:
The margins in automobile manufacturing are too thin for F1's questionable advertising benefit. And the idea of an F1 'power unit' still has too much carbon involved. There is a reason F1 has become the darling of the Middle East.
Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren, Alfa Romeo, Ford, Alpine and Audi would appear to disagree...
We'll see what happens. GM, Stellantis, Toyota, Tesla, Tata related and others are not getting on the 'F1 is so magical' band wagon. Given both Ford and VW's financial picture, their interest should be questioned by their shareholders.

Mr Tidy

31,640 posts

157 months

Tuesday 21st February 2023
quotequote all
Honda - the power of dreams!

So dream on. laugh

nismo48

7,158 posts

237 months

Friday 24th February 2023
quotequote all
Steamer said:
Well that is one way of side-stepping working with Horner I suppose...
biglaugh

MF35

454 posts

51 months

Friday 24th February 2023
quotequote all
Anyone who remembers A. Senna and a screaming V10 can only applaud this ...

Jader1973

5,187 posts

230 months

Friday 24th February 2023
quotequote all
I’m confused.

I thought Honda sold their F1 engine company to Redbull, and therefore only had a small involvement in supporting that transition.

But now their name is back on the car. Are they a sponsor now or something?

rampangle

103 posts

45 months

Tuesday 28th February 2023
quotequote all
re33 said:
Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren, Alfa Romeo, Ford, Alpine and Audi would appear to disagree...
Ferrari doesn't count, their entire being is has been tied up in F1 for decades, they'll stick at it almost regardless of how rotten it is. McLaren, ditto. Alfa, who cares, the brand is borderline defunct. Alpine is a tiny boutique brand, Renault obviously doesn't think the category is worth it for the part of the company that actually matters.

Merc? Well, they've done well for an awfully long time and while they were winning, they were always likely to stick around. Real test will be whether they stay if they keep losing. I doubt it.

So, it really comes down to Ford and Audi. Not insignificant brands by any means, I grant. But even by the extraordinarily rotten standards of most elite sport, the governing bodies of F1 reek of incompetence and corruption. Likewise the ludicrous postering around sustainability (the power source / emissions of the cars during a race are utterly irrelevant compared to shipping the whole circus around the global in the ludicrously inefficient manner that currently prevails) is a two fingered saluted to sanity and anything resembling ethical practices.

So, really, the other guy was right. Audi and Ford may well hold their noses. But the category stinks, as do the major stake holders and governing organisations.