Is there a regulation height for street warning signs?
Discussion
Ive been sent a ticket for driving down a London side road .
'Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles'.
I definitely dont remember seeing any warning signs and after reviewing the video , they are positioned very high up so way out of the eyeline of most cars.
Judging by the Mini parked nearby I'd guess they are 10-12ft above ground level. Other possible mitigation ; my car is small and low, it was dark and the sign on the right is angled away so not clear.
I'm going to contest, does anyone know if the signs are incorrectly positioned?
Thanks.
'Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles'.
I definitely dont remember seeing any warning signs and after reviewing the video , they are positioned very high up so way out of the eyeline of most cars.
Judging by the Mini parked nearby I'd guess they are 10-12ft above ground level. Other possible mitigation ; my car is small and low, it was dark and the sign on the right is angled away so not clear.
I'm going to contest, does anyone know if the signs are incorrectly positioned?
Thanks.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Section 5.4 of chapter 1. Read more than the first paragraph. Also consider at that location there are multiple signs on the pole.
How accurate do you believe your height estimate is?
Section 5.4 of chapter 1. Read more than the first paragraph. Also consider at that location there are multiple signs on the pole.
How accurate do you believe your height estimate is?
PaulD86 said:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Section 5.4 of chapter 1. Read more than the first paragraph. Also consider at that location there are multiple signs on the pole.
How accurate do you believe your height estimate is?
Ive had a look on google maps but the images are too old. I'd say 10-12ft max.Section 5.4 of chapter 1. Read more than the first paragraph. Also consider at that location there are multiple signs on the pole.
How accurate do you believe your height estimate is?
george123 said:
PaulD86 said:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Section 5.4 of chapter 1. Read more than the first paragraph. Also consider at that location there are multiple signs on the pole.
How accurate do you believe your height estimate is?
Ive had a look on google maps but the images are too old. I'd say 10-12ft max.Section 5.4 of chapter 1. Read more than the first paragraph. Also consider at that location there are multiple signs on the pole.
How accurate do you believe your height estimate is?
whats the google maps location?
For the record, I'm stating an opinion on the signs, however things you may also want to consider were how many other signs you had passed (if any). I handled an insurance claim recently where someone tried to get a local authority to pay for damage to their vehicle from turning at a road closure sign (they hit a pole while turning) having claimed there was insufficient warning. It was found the claimant had driven past 3 road ahead closed signs. As I say, I'm not stating a view either way on this one, but experience tells me there is usually more to these than just the one picture.
superlightr said:
what is the street view the other way? ie did you turn into that road just before the edge of the picture and the sign which would make it very difficult to see the top of a 10-12 foot sign from the angle of the turn or before you turned in etc or was it a 100m straight bit of road?
its a relatively straight piece of road . I do remember someone pulling out of the turning on the left (see pic) just before entering this restricted area, had to hoot so he saw me. usual too tight, too many parked cars London residential street. this also distracted me. could add this to my contest. 
superlightr said:
sorry I dont understand? its the road layout behind the picture that would help to see the road layout.
whats the google maps location?
have added a screen shot of the road leading upto the signs. Signs located at 19 Studdridge st, Fulham. whats the google maps location?
EDIT: also a link further down the thread, thanks
Edited by george123 on Thursday 23 February 11:03
PaulD86 said:
For the record, I'm stating an opinion on the signs, however things you may also want to consider were how many other signs you had passed (if any). I handled an insurance claim recently where someone tried to get a local authority to pay for damage to their vehicle from turning at a road closure sign (they hit a pole while turning) having claimed there was insufficient warning. It was found the claimant had driven past 3 road ahead closed signs. As I say, I'm not stating a view either way on this one, but experience tells me there is usually more to these than just the one picture.
you're probably right, although I'm usually pretty vigilant ref Mayor Khant's revenue raising antics . Frustratingly google maps pre-dates the install of the signs:https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4725997,-0.1929536...
Thanks for the additional pictures.
If you were turning left out of that side road I would wager that the height of that sign now would likely be above the eye line of where a driver would sit in a normal car ie it would be hidden by your own car roof and thus not visible. Thus I would push this that the sign is too close to the junction for a car to see when turning into that road, the other sign is turned away/damaged.
May work may not - did you look up any regs for max height of road signs?
ps in your pic where the road signs are not there and you put green line - the line should be considerably closer going from the door surround of the property in the left.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/part/...
may help if the lower edge of the sign was 1700mm above ground level.
Ive only had a cursory look so may need to read it in more depth.
If you were turning left out of that side road I would wager that the height of that sign now would likely be above the eye line of where a driver would sit in a normal car ie it would be hidden by your own car roof and thus not visible. Thus I would push this that the sign is too close to the junction for a car to see when turning into that road, the other sign is turned away/damaged.
May work may not - did you look up any regs for max height of road signs?
ps in your pic where the road signs are not there and you put green line - the line should be considerably closer going from the door surround of the property in the left.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/part/...
may help if the lower edge of the sign was 1700mm above ground level.
Ive only had a cursory look so may need to read it in more depth.
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 23 February 11:51
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 23 February 11:52
superlightr said:
Thanks for the additional pictures.
If you were turning left out of that side road I would wager that the height of that sign now would likely be above the eye line of where a driver would sit in a normal car ie it would be hidden by your own car roof and thus not visible. Thus I would push this that the sign is too close to the junction for a car to see when turning into that road, the other sign is turned away/damaged.
May work may not - did you look up any regs for max height of road signs?
ps in your pic where the road signs are not there and you put green line - the line should be considerably closer going from the door surround of the property in the left.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/part/...
may help if the lower edge of the sign was 1700mm above ground level.
Ive only had a cursory look so may need to read it in more depth.
thanks for your reply. If you were turning left out of that side road I would wager that the height of that sign now would likely be above the eye line of where a driver would sit in a normal car ie it would be hidden by your own car roof and thus not visible. Thus I would push this that the sign is too close to the junction for a car to see when turning into that road, the other sign is turned away/damaged.
May work may not - did you look up any regs for max height of road signs?
ps in your pic where the road signs are not there and you put green line - the line should be considerably closer going from the door surround of the property in the left.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/part/...
may help if the lower edge of the sign was 1700mm above ground level.
Ive only had a cursory look so may need to read it in more depth.
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 23 February 11:51
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 23 February 11:52
ref max. height of road signs, there's no max quoted on the link you sent:
"5.4.1. Signs should be mounted such that the lower edge of the sign is generally between
900 mm and 1500 mm above the highest point of the adjacent carriageway. Signs mounted at
the lower end of this range benefit from receiving the most illumination from vehicle headlamps". The lower edge of this sign is well above this range, so its worth me including this info in the appeal.
Also here only refers to a min. clearance over the pavement/footpath, 5.4.2:
"to minimise the environmental impact of signs,
particularly large directional signs, consideration should be given to adopting lower mounting
heights. A minimum clearance of 2100 mm should be maintained over footways, 2300 mm over
cycle tracks or shared-use facilities and 2700 mm over equestrian routes"
After further reflection and also reading Theinternet's post, I now remember turning left out of Perrymead St. onto Studdridge St . 1. Neither signs are illuminated, unlike the width restriction signs. 2. signs are attached well above eyeline as I turned left into Studdridge st. 3. they are also positioned too high up to be illuminated by my headlights (as their video demonstrates ).4. the bright porch light on the left behind the sign effectively 'back lights' it, further obscuring it. 5. Also the sign on the right hand pole is obscured since its been attached at an angle facing away from the road.
george123 said:
superlightr said:
Thanks for the additional pictures.
If you were turning left out of that side road I would wager that the height of that sign now would likely be above the eye line of where a driver would sit in a normal car ie it would be hidden by your own car roof and thus not visible. Thus I would push this that the sign is too close to the junction for a car to see when turning into that road, the other sign is turned away/damaged.
May work may not - did you look up any regs for max height of road signs?
ps in your pic where the road signs are not there and you put green line - the line should be considerably closer going from the door surround of the property in the left.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/part/...
may help if the lower edge of the sign was 1700mm above ground level.
Ive only had a cursory look so may need to read it in more depth.
thanks for your reply. If you were turning left out of that side road I would wager that the height of that sign now would likely be above the eye line of where a driver would sit in a normal car ie it would be hidden by your own car roof and thus not visible. Thus I would push this that the sign is too close to the junction for a car to see when turning into that road, the other sign is turned away/damaged.
May work may not - did you look up any regs for max height of road signs?
ps in your pic where the road signs are not there and you put green line - the line should be considerably closer going from the door surround of the property in the left.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/part/...
may help if the lower edge of the sign was 1700mm above ground level.
Ive only had a cursory look so may need to read it in more depth.
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 23 February 11:51
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 23 February 11:52
ref max. height of road signs, there's no max quoted on the link you sent:
"5.4.1. Signs should be mounted such that the lower edge of the sign is generally between
900 mm and 1500 mm above the highest point of the adjacent carriageway. Signs mounted at
the lower end of this range benefit from receiving the most illumination from vehicle headlamps". The lower edge of this sign is well above this range, so its worth me including this info in the appeal.
Also here only refers to a min. clearance over the pavement/footpath, 5.4.2:
"to minimise the environmental impact of signs,
particularly large directional signs, consideration should be given to adopting lower mounting
heights. A minimum clearance of 2100 mm should be maintained over footways, 2300 mm over
cycle tracks or shared-use facilities and 2700 mm over equestrian routes"
After further reflection and also reading Theinternet's post, I now remember turning left out of Perrymead St. onto Studdridge St . 1. Neither signs are illuminated, unlike the width restriction signs. 2. signs are attached well above eyeline as I turned left into Studdridge st. 3. they are also positioned too high up to be illuminated by my headlights (as their video demonstrates ).4. the bright porch light on the left behind the sign effectively 'back lights' it, further obscuring it. 5. Also the sign on the right hand pole is obscured since its been attached at an angle facing away from the road.
"on the post with the lower edge of the band being not less than 1500 mm nor more than 1700 mm above ground level."
I read that as no more than 1700mm so if your sign is higher than 1700mm lower edge it may not be complaint.
I would try and measure a sample nearby of other signs on a pavement are at x height which are what about 5 feet high and see what others ones are higher. I would recon you will see these new ones are considerbly higher than most others which may indicate they are too high and or invisible/obscured when driving due to the angles and turning left which Im pleased you remember now doing. Hence why the signs should be lower....
Its interesting and not clear cut. I thought that there would be a "pole" height reg - there is for fonts/the sign itself etc.
Good luck with it.
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 23 February 15:36
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 23 February 15:38
superlightr said:
I read that as no more than 1700mm so if your sign is higher than 1700mm lower edge it may not be complaint.
You only read the first paragraph, didn't you? Keep reading. 
Edit to add, if the sign was as low as 1700mm at that location, it would be non-compliant and I'd expect the authority to be dealing with a number of PI claims.
Edited by PaulD86 on Thursday 23 February 15:45
HappyMidget said:
Looks to be mounted on top of the existing parking restriction sign on the LHS. Looks to be pretty high if so.
looks like the line of sight from that van drive to where the access restrictions would be is blocked by the roof of the vehicle and I think would be the same for a car. Perhaps dive there and stop, turn off engine and take a picture from drivers seat to see how much of the sign you can really see.george123 said:
its a relatively straight piece of road . I do remember someone pulling out of the turning on the left (see pic) just before entering this restricted area, had to hoot so he saw me. usual too tight, too many parked cars London residential street. this also distracted me. could add this to my contest.
I don't think you'll get anywhere with this excuse. Also unlucky for you that the warning period had ended on 31/01 - https://www.lbhf.gov.uk/articles/news/2023/02/warn...Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff