What chance of the council paying out?
Discussion
Hit a pothole this afternoon and ripped the side out of 2 tyres. Green Flag were good and got me home within 2 hours. I'll take the wheels to my local tyre center on Monday.
There's a small chunk out of one wheel and bad rash on the other. What are the chances of my local council paying for the repair and replacement tyres? Or should I be talking to my own insurer?
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/GEYcvGBo[/url]
There's a small chunk out of one wheel and bad rash on the other. What are the chances of my local council paying for the repair and replacement tyres? Or should I be talking to my own insurer?
[url]|https://thumbsnap.com/GEYcvGBo[/url]
Be careful talking to your insurance company, they may decide to write the car off...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I had a similar issue and reported it to the council, it took out a tyre and buckled the rim.
Took many photos, it was approx ten inches deep, 10ft of the road was damaged, they
wrote back saying 'we check our roads once a month every month' and regrettable
as it was they did not see themselves as liable. They said they'd had reports on
the pothole and repaired it within 24hours of the report.
Not content with this I asked them to supply me with the dates they've checked the
road and any other reports at that part of the road. They sent back with a file
of 3 pages full of echnical jargon on the road repairs which I didn't understand
and it didn't seem specific.
I've asked them to clairfy, I've also appealed their decision not to pay out, nothing
heard re clarification of the road info or the appeal but given the state of the road
I'm not going to let it go.
Here is what they are attempting to wriggle out of....the road has been repaired
before, the ridge is approx 10inches above the foot of that hole where the tape
measure in. I went back and took these photos the following day, the car I went
back in actually ground out when i drove into the pothole to show it's depth...
If they continue to play hardball I'm going to issue a small claims against them as
their are potholes and there are bloomin great potholes.
Took many photos, it was approx ten inches deep, 10ft of the road was damaged, they
wrote back saying 'we check our roads once a month every month' and regrettable
as it was they did not see themselves as liable. They said they'd had reports on
the pothole and repaired it within 24hours of the report.
Not content with this I asked them to supply me with the dates they've checked the
road and any other reports at that part of the road. They sent back with a file
of 3 pages full of echnical jargon on the road repairs which I didn't understand
and it didn't seem specific.
I've asked them to clairfy, I've also appealed their decision not to pay out, nothing
heard re clarification of the road info or the appeal but given the state of the road
I'm not going to let it go.
Here is what they are attempting to wriggle out of....the road has been repaired
before, the ridge is approx 10inches above the foot of that hole where the tape
measure in. I went back and took these photos the following day, the car I went
back in actually ground out when i drove into the pothole to show it's depth...
If they continue to play hardball I'm going to issue a small claims against them as
their are potholes and there are bloomin great potholes.
Basically they are not liable IF they have inspected the road adequately AND any defects noticed are repaired within the required time, both determined by the grade
of road
Definitely ask the council for the records on inspections and if they have this defect registered, you can raise a FOI request if you are very determined or you feel they’re being obstructive. Also they won’t pay the full price for tyres, they’ll pay a percentage depending on how worn they are etc
And report it on fixmystreet or wherever
of road
Definitely ask the council for the records on inspections and if they have this defect registered, you can raise a FOI request if you are very determined or you feel they’re being obstructive. Also they won’t pay the full price for tyres, they’ll pay a percentage depending on how worn they are etc
And report it on fixmystreet or wherever
JogonUK said:
I had a similar issue and reported it to the council, it took out a tyre and buckled the rim.
Submit a FOI request, this one is a good example:http://www.moray.gov.uk/moray_standard/page_135636...
If they spotted the defect but didn’t repair it in whatever time the type of road requires, they are liable
Don’t bother with small claims etc.
You'll need to find out the position with both their proactive and reactive systems for the road in question. Proactive as in carrying out routine inspections at certain intervals and looking for defects (and then taking appropriate action within a reasonable timeframe for the nature of the defect). Reactive as in responding to complaints about the defect and responding accordingly as above. But you need it to be about that specific one rather than others down the same stretch.
Here's a link to section 41 of the Highways Act 1980, which relates to any highway maintainable at the public expense by a local highway authority, and any highway other than a highway falling within the previous wording or a highway maintainable under a special enactment or by reason of tenure, enclosure or prescription. [That's wording from the Act linked below]
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/secti...
And here's a link to the 'special' defence they can rely on under section 58 of the same Act, provided they can demonstrate with disclosure of inspection records/reports/repair documentation as appropriate:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/secti...
Claims are certainly winnable but most will likely fail, either due to there being sufficient evidence to support the defence or the claimant not pursuing things further. I've seen cases where the council has run the defence even with strong evidence to counter their arguments, but it's taken a court to give judgment for the claim to succeed.
You should try and take measurements showing the size and depth of the defect as that will help to try and argue it as being 'dangerous' to warrant attention. You could also try websites like https://www.fixmystreet.com/ to try and see if you can find evidence of prior reports that should have put the council on notice.
And then set out the time, date and other factors, such as speed being travelled, weather and why it could not be avoided, such as moving towards the verge or waiting to go around it, especially if prior potholes had been seen and avoided (ie give notice that road surface is poor and more might be expected). And send them the cost details you want reimbursed.
If they refuse and you wish to pursue, you should seek from them details of inspections for that specific stretch over the preceding X months, details of any reports and actions taken, details of how the road is categorised for inspections (as city centre roads will require more regular inspections than rural roads with less traffic), what they are looking for in terms of what will justify a repair being raised, how the inspections were carried out and the methods they use to determine their decision making in terms of inspection type/response times. It can be very drawn out and documents they send you may not be easy to understand, as mentioned above. They are not the easiest to engage with so it will take a certain level of determination.
Hope this helps.
Here's a link to section 41 of the Highways Act 1980, which relates to any highway maintainable at the public expense by a local highway authority, and any highway other than a highway falling within the previous wording or a highway maintainable under a special enactment or by reason of tenure, enclosure or prescription. [That's wording from the Act linked below]
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/secti...
And here's a link to the 'special' defence they can rely on under section 58 of the same Act, provided they can demonstrate with disclosure of inspection records/reports/repair documentation as appropriate:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/secti...
Claims are certainly winnable but most will likely fail, either due to there being sufficient evidence to support the defence or the claimant not pursuing things further. I've seen cases where the council has run the defence even with strong evidence to counter their arguments, but it's taken a court to give judgment for the claim to succeed.
You should try and take measurements showing the size and depth of the defect as that will help to try and argue it as being 'dangerous' to warrant attention. You could also try websites like https://www.fixmystreet.com/ to try and see if you can find evidence of prior reports that should have put the council on notice.
And then set out the time, date and other factors, such as speed being travelled, weather and why it could not be avoided, such as moving towards the verge or waiting to go around it, especially if prior potholes had been seen and avoided (ie give notice that road surface is poor and more might be expected). And send them the cost details you want reimbursed.
If they refuse and you wish to pursue, you should seek from them details of inspections for that specific stretch over the preceding X months, details of any reports and actions taken, details of how the road is categorised for inspections (as city centre roads will require more regular inspections than rural roads with less traffic), what they are looking for in terms of what will justify a repair being raised, how the inspections were carried out and the methods they use to determine their decision making in terms of inspection type/response times. It can be very drawn out and documents they send you may not be easy to understand, as mentioned above. They are not the easiest to engage with so it will take a certain level of determination.
Hope this helps.
essayer said:
Submit a FOI request, this one is a good example:
http://www.moray.gov.uk/moray_standard/page_135636...
If they spotted the defect but didn’t repair it in whatever time the type of road requires, they are liable
Don’t bother with small claims etc.
They sent a 3 page 'Site History Report' which was quite detailed but was not altogther clear as tohttp://www.moray.gov.uk/moray_standard/page_135636...
If they spotted the defect but didn’t repair it in whatever time the type of road requires, they are liable
Don’t bother with small claims etc.
what pothole was what. There are numerous reports and strangely none of my report was included
in what they sent to me even though I had followed their online pothole report and filled in the relevant
info and received a notification that my report had been successfully submitted.
All depends on which council you're dealing with and what their inspection frequencies and target dates are.
Chances are you won't get any money.
Something that can blow a tyre and damage a rim is likely to have formed or become dangerous within a very short period of time and so whereas it's unfortunate for you, it's also on you to prove the council were negligent.
You'll only get money if the pothole that caused the damage was identified on a routine inspection and not repaired within target date. After that you'll have to take it to court.
Chances are you won't get any money.
Something that can blow a tyre and damage a rim is likely to have formed or become dangerous within a very short period of time and so whereas it's unfortunate for you, it's also on you to prove the council were negligent.
You'll only get money if the pothole that caused the damage was identified on a routine inspection and not repaired within target date. After that you'll have to take it to court.
essayer said:
JogonUK said:
I had a similar issue and reported it to the council, it took out a tyre and buckled the rim.
Submit a FOI request, this one is a good example:About 10 years ago had a pot hole damage incident, without photos they basically asked for a receipt and paid out, 2 years ago a huge pot hole appeared overnight close to where I live and damaged 2 tyres, put claim in with photos and had loads of paperwork back about the type of road, surveys done on it and that it had been repaired once reported - no payout.
I guess they are playing hardball nowadays.
I guess they are playing hardball nowadays.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
I really don't understand OP, that looks like you were too close to the edge of a rough rural lane.
Looking at that I'd drive it carefully and away from the edge.
I’m sorry but that’s not right at the edge of the (two lane) road. Look at the white lines. Plus, the OP stated there was on-coming traffic so was unable to swerve. Looking at that I'd drive it carefully and away from the edge.
jamei303 said:
Are we talking about the shallow pothole on the right or the crack on the verge? I don't see how the hole on the right could cause the damage pictured in the OP.
This is the question. I read it as he needed to avoid oncoming traffic so hit the one on the edge of the road. section 58 of the highways act applies.
Councils defence is basically that either it did not know of the defect (it wasn’t there last time they inspected the road) or if it was there, that they categorised it correctly (ie did it meet intervention standard at that time) and if so that they were in the process of repairing it within their published timescales.
Basis of defence is that they can’t be held responsible for something they don’t know about.
Councils defence is basically that either it did not know of the defect (it wasn’t there last time they inspected the road) or if it was there, that they categorised it correctly (ie did it meet intervention standard at that time) and if so that they were in the process of repairing it within their published timescales.
Basis of defence is that they can’t be held responsible for something they don’t know about.
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