Very Bad Experience Buying a Cat N from a Car Trader
Discussion
Hello all,
I'm currently going through my worst car buying experience in 30 years of buying cars.
I bought a 2017 Cat N Audi A3 in September 2022. Cosmetically it looked good (apart from kerb rash on the alloys.) And it was advertised as being 26500 miles, but when I went to collect it, it had 31000 miles on the clock (I should have walked away then - yes, I'm a mug - but I'd travelled well over a hundred miles.)
The advert had said "this vehicle is recorded as category N all has been repairs to a very high standerd vehicle sustained very minimul damage." Yes, very bad spelling and grammar but I thought, okay, minimal damage and it's been repaired to a high standard, I'll take a chance on it. Surely the garage isn't in the business of ripping people off!?
Well turned out every single Cat S/N this car company has on Auto Trader (there's currently like 20 of them) says exactly the same thing in the advert.
It didn't take long before I started to have suspicions that things weren't perfect. The coolant seemed to need topping up a lot. And one morning, the coolant warning light came on (I topped it up again.) I called the car trader about it, and they said email us the details (that was their warranty - yes, I'm a double mug for not getting a good warranty.) So I went to a local independent who fixed it, and I shelled out £1300 from my own pocket. This was December 2022.
Whilst the car was having the water leak fixed they noticed the gearbox was leaking oil. They topped it up and said to book it in after Christmas.
January 16th 2023 the car goes into a local independent garage, and it has been there ever since. They have been trying to work out a cost effective repair. Unfortunately they discovered one bolt had been sheared off the gearbox (from the minimul damage incident.) And when they took the gearbox apart, there was internal damage in the gearbox.
I called the car trader I bought the car off, and they were unacceptably and obnoxiously rude. Insinuated that it wasn't pre-existing damage. But bolts don't shear themselves off a gearbox by magic (I'd already sent them photos by email but they never replied.) And they couldn't care less. And their warranty wasn't worth sh!t (it still under their crappy email us warranty as I write this.)
So basically looks like I'm going to be down £10000 in repairs on a car which cost £18995 and isn't really worth more than £15000 on the market. Once it is repaired and I know the full cost, I'm certainly considering the small claims court. I've already reported them to trading standards and Auto Trader (who didn't really seem to care.)
This is the first and last time I touch a Cat N write off. I feel like such an idiot.
Even if one person reads this and doesn't then buy a Cat S/N and get ripped off, it'll have been worth writing this post.
Take care!
Q: What are other peoples' experience of insurance write offs?
I heard from a colleague of someone who bought a Cat S and ended up forking out £10000 to straighten up the chassis.
I'm currently going through my worst car buying experience in 30 years of buying cars.
I bought a 2017 Cat N Audi A3 in September 2022. Cosmetically it looked good (apart from kerb rash on the alloys.) And it was advertised as being 26500 miles, but when I went to collect it, it had 31000 miles on the clock (I should have walked away then - yes, I'm a mug - but I'd travelled well over a hundred miles.)
The advert had said "this vehicle is recorded as category N all has been repairs to a very high standerd vehicle sustained very minimul damage." Yes, very bad spelling and grammar but I thought, okay, minimal damage and it's been repaired to a high standard, I'll take a chance on it. Surely the garage isn't in the business of ripping people off!?
Well turned out every single Cat S/N this car company has on Auto Trader (there's currently like 20 of them) says exactly the same thing in the advert.
It didn't take long before I started to have suspicions that things weren't perfect. The coolant seemed to need topping up a lot. And one morning, the coolant warning light came on (I topped it up again.) I called the car trader about it, and they said email us the details (that was their warranty - yes, I'm a double mug for not getting a good warranty.) So I went to a local independent who fixed it, and I shelled out £1300 from my own pocket. This was December 2022.
Whilst the car was having the water leak fixed they noticed the gearbox was leaking oil. They topped it up and said to book it in after Christmas.
January 16th 2023 the car goes into a local independent garage, and it has been there ever since. They have been trying to work out a cost effective repair. Unfortunately they discovered one bolt had been sheared off the gearbox (from the minimul damage incident.) And when they took the gearbox apart, there was internal damage in the gearbox.
I called the car trader I bought the car off, and they were unacceptably and obnoxiously rude. Insinuated that it wasn't pre-existing damage. But bolts don't shear themselves off a gearbox by magic (I'd already sent them photos by email but they never replied.) And they couldn't care less. And their warranty wasn't worth sh!t (it still under their crappy email us warranty as I write this.)
So basically looks like I'm going to be down £10000 in repairs on a car which cost £18995 and isn't really worth more than £15000 on the market. Once it is repaired and I know the full cost, I'm certainly considering the small claims court. I've already reported them to trading standards and Auto Trader (who didn't really seem to care.)
This is the first and last time I touch a Cat N write off. I feel like such an idiot.
Even if one person reads this and doesn't then buy a Cat S/N and get ripped off, it'll have been worth writing this post.
Take care!
Q: What are other peoples' experience of insurance write offs?
I heard from a colleague of someone who bought a Cat S and ended up forking out £10000 to straighten up the chassis.
so you paid nearly £20k for a car you knew had been crashed enough that insurance wouldnt repair it and didnt bother having a good look or getting a skilled inspection
i learnt long ago never trust a word that comes out of a salesman's mouth , you never see an advert reading "smashed to bits and badly repaired at minimal costs , just enough so it looks ok on the forecourt" theyre all a minor chip on the bumper corner lol
i learnt long ago never trust a word that comes out of a salesman's mouth , you never see an advert reading "smashed to bits and badly repaired at minimal costs , just enough so it looks ok on the forecourt" theyre all a minor chip on the bumper corner lol
stevemcs said:
I wouldn’t buy a cat n or s. Not that it helps you.
Thanks Steve. Yes, I will never do so again.Bestle said:
Have you managed to find any pictures of the car from pre repair?
Unfortunately not. I just bought it from a trader. When I asked they said it had had rear bumper damage.steveo3002 said:
so you paid nearly £20k for a car you knew had been crashed enough that insurance wouldnt repair it and didnt bother having a good look or getting a skilled inspection
i learnt long ago never trust a word that comes out of a salesman's mouth , you never see an advert reading "smashed to bits and badly repaired at minimal costs , just enough so it looks ok on the forecourt" theyre all a minor chip on the bumper corner lol
I very foolishly trusted that the trader wasn't trying to rip me off. I'm an idiot. I should have at the very least got an independent inspection.i learnt long ago never trust a word that comes out of a salesman's mouth , you never see an advert reading "smashed to bits and badly repaired at minimal costs , just enough so it looks ok on the forecourt" theyre all a minor chip on the bumper corner lol
SpeckledJim said:
MCOL
And did you pay anything with a credit card?
No, it was bank transfer.And did you pay anything with a credit card?
I've never bought a Cat S/N/C/D but have considered it.
But I wouldn't entertain it on a car that would have a high pre-crash value. My logic being that if it was more economical to write off a £20k car than fix it, then it must have had a hell of a smack. It wouldn't have been a parking ding.
Whereas a car in sub £5k territory could quite likely get a Cat N/D from something quite minor.
But I wouldn't entertain it on a car that would have a high pre-crash value. My logic being that if it was more economical to write off a £20k car than fix it, then it must have had a hell of a smack. It wouldn't have been a parking ding.
Whereas a car in sub £5k territory could quite likely get a Cat N/D from something quite minor.
bearman68 said:
Is it a manual box? Or one of those stupid DSG things?
Yes, it's one of those stupid DSG things which is why the repair bill is going to be very expensive.spookly said:
I've never bought a Cat S/N/C/D but have considered it.
But I wouldn't entertain it on a car that would have a high pre-crash value. My logic being that if it was more economical to write off a £20k car than fix it, then it must have had a hell of a smack. It wouldn't have been a parking ding.
Whereas a car in sub £5k territory could quite likely get a Cat N/D from something quite minor.
That's a good point.But I wouldn't entertain it on a car that would have a high pre-crash value. My logic being that if it was more economical to write off a £20k car than fix it, then it must have had a hell of a smack. It wouldn't have been a parking ding.
Whereas a car in sub £5k territory could quite likely get a Cat N/D from something quite minor.
I'd been fed the line that "because of c.o.v.i.d and supply chain issues which made getting parts difficult, a lot of cars got written off for relatively minor things because the insurance company didn't want to pay for months of a rental car." And I fell for it hook line and sinker.
spookly said:
I've never bought a Cat S/N/C/D but have considered it.
But I wouldn't entertain it on a car that would have a high pre-crash value. My logic being that if it was more economical to write off a £20k car than fix it, then it must have had a hell of a smack. It wouldn't have been a parking ding.
Whereas a car in sub £5k territory could quite likely get a Cat N/D from something quite minor.
Actually, crash damaged cars have a high value so a 30k car with a salvage value of 25k only needs 5k to write it off. (Don’t sweat the numbers they are just examples) - many other countries that have right hand drive cars don’t have the same cat ratings etc as us so many leave the country.But I wouldn't entertain it on a car that would have a high pre-crash value. My logic being that if it was more economical to write off a £20k car than fix it, then it must have had a hell of a smack. It wouldn't have been a parking ding.
Whereas a car in sub £5k territory could quite likely get a Cat N/D from something quite minor.
It might not have been a big smack - I wonder what accident would shear bolts inside a gearbox though.
If I was buying any cat car I would have the best inspection I could get…but no inspection is going to find that gearbox fault.
Caddyshack said:
If I was buying any cat car I would have the best inspection I could get…but no inspection is going to find that gearbox fault.
In hindsight, absolutely I should have got an inspection.Whoever repaired the vehicle would have known the gearbox was missing a bolt. And based on the number of Cat S/N cars this trader sells (it's actually currently 30+) maybe the repairer and trader are kind of sister companies, but I don't know.
Muzzer79 said:
Why are you spending all this money on repairs?
Why haven’t you taken it back to the supplying dealer to be repaired, or rejected?
This used car trader is a good 2.5 hours drive from where I live. If I'd been more local I would have taken the car back to them, certainly for the water leak, but I imagine they would not have told me about the gearbox oil leak, and sometime in the future the gearbox oil would have all gone and the gearbox blown up, and they'd say it was not a pre-existing issue, and I'd be in the same situation, or maybe worse.Why haven’t you taken it back to the supplying dealer to be repaired, or rejected?
DavidC12345 said:
Hello all,
I'm currently going through my worst car buying experience in 30 years of buying cars.
I bought a 2017 Cat N Audi A3 in September 2022. Cosmetically it looked good (apart from kerb rash on the alloys.) And it was advertised as being 26500 miles, but when I went to collect it, it had 31000 miles on the clock (I should have walked away then - yes, I'm a mug - but I'd travelled well over a hundred miles.)
The advert had said "this vehicle is recorded as category N all has been repairs to a very high standerd vehicle sustained very minimul damage." Yes, very bad spelling and grammar but I thought, okay, minimal damage and it's been repaired to a high standard, I'll take a chance on it. Surely the garage isn't in the business of ripping people off!?
Well turned out every single Cat S/N this car company has on Auto Trader (there's currently like 20 of them) says exactly the same thing in the advert.
It didn't take long before I started to have suspicions that things weren't perfect. The coolant seemed to need topping up a lot. And one morning, the coolant warning light came on (I topped it up again.) I called the car trader about it, and they said email us the details (that was their warranty - yes, I'm a double mug for not getting a good warranty.) So I went to a local independent who fixed it, and I shelled out £1300 from my own pocket. This was December 2022.
Whilst the car was having the water leak fixed they noticed the gearbox was leaking oil. They topped it up and said to book it in after Christmas.
January 16th 2023 the car goes into a local independent garage, and it has been there ever since. They have been trying to work out a cost effective repair. Unfortunately they discovered one bolt had been sheared off the gearbox (from the minimul damage incident.) And when they took the gearbox apart, there was internal damage in the gearbox.
I called the car trader I bought the car off, and they were unacceptably and obnoxiously rude. Insinuated that it wasn't pre-existing damage. But bolts don't shear themselves off a gearbox by magic (I'd already sent them photos by email but they never replied.) And they couldn't care less. And their warranty wasn't worth sh!t (it still under their crappy email us warranty as I write this.)
So basically looks like I'm going to be down £10000 in repairs on a car which cost £18995 and isn't really worth more than £15000 on the market. Once it is repaired and I know the full cost, I'm certainly considering the small claims court. I've already reported them to trading standards and Auto Trader (who didn't really seem to care.)
This is the first and last time I touch a Cat N write off. I feel like such an idiot.
Even if one person reads this and doesn't then buy a Cat S/N and get ripped off, it'll have been worth writing this post.
Take care!
Q: What are other peoples' experience of insurance write offs?
I heard from a colleague of someone who bought a Cat S and ended up forking out £10000 to straighten up the chassis.
I have some questions.I'm currently going through my worst car buying experience in 30 years of buying cars.
I bought a 2017 Cat N Audi A3 in September 2022. Cosmetically it looked good (apart from kerb rash on the alloys.) And it was advertised as being 26500 miles, but when I went to collect it, it had 31000 miles on the clock (I should have walked away then - yes, I'm a mug - but I'd travelled well over a hundred miles.)
The advert had said "this vehicle is recorded as category N all has been repairs to a very high standerd vehicle sustained very minimul damage." Yes, very bad spelling and grammar but I thought, okay, minimal damage and it's been repaired to a high standard, I'll take a chance on it. Surely the garage isn't in the business of ripping people off!?
Well turned out every single Cat S/N this car company has on Auto Trader (there's currently like 20 of them) says exactly the same thing in the advert.
It didn't take long before I started to have suspicions that things weren't perfect. The coolant seemed to need topping up a lot. And one morning, the coolant warning light came on (I topped it up again.) I called the car trader about it, and they said email us the details (that was their warranty - yes, I'm a double mug for not getting a good warranty.) So I went to a local independent who fixed it, and I shelled out £1300 from my own pocket. This was December 2022.
Whilst the car was having the water leak fixed they noticed the gearbox was leaking oil. They topped it up and said to book it in after Christmas.
January 16th 2023 the car goes into a local independent garage, and it has been there ever since. They have been trying to work out a cost effective repair. Unfortunately they discovered one bolt had been sheared off the gearbox (from the minimul damage incident.) And when they took the gearbox apart, there was internal damage in the gearbox.
I called the car trader I bought the car off, and they were unacceptably and obnoxiously rude. Insinuated that it wasn't pre-existing damage. But bolts don't shear themselves off a gearbox by magic (I'd already sent them photos by email but they never replied.) And they couldn't care less. And their warranty wasn't worth sh!t (it still under their crappy email us warranty as I write this.)
So basically looks like I'm going to be down £10000 in repairs on a car which cost £18995 and isn't really worth more than £15000 on the market. Once it is repaired and I know the full cost, I'm certainly considering the small claims court. I've already reported them to trading standards and Auto Trader (who didn't really seem to care.)
This is the first and last time I touch a Cat N write off. I feel like such an idiot.
Even if one person reads this and doesn't then buy a Cat S/N and get ripped off, it'll have been worth writing this post.
Take care!
Q: What are other peoples' experience of insurance write offs?
I heard from a colleague of someone who bought a Cat S and ended up forking out £10000 to straighten up the chassis.
You obviously didn't do a VCheck before you bought this car, why haven't you done one since? You'll be able to get pictures of the car pre repair.
Why have you paid almost normal money for a CAT car?
What's actually wrong with the car?
Have you been given a proper breakdown of the cost?
DSG gearboxes are known for issues so this could happen on a non cat car.
If the car was only worth 15 why did you pay 19k for it?
It seems to me that the fact it is cat n is probably a red herring here. If the accident was rear damage, I cannot see an obvious link at all between coolant and gearbox issues and that type of damage. So these issues sounds like regular used car warranty issues but you would normally need to give the supplying dealer a chance to rectify them.
I’m afraid that you’ve gone into this without your eyes wide open. The first thing you should have done is an HPI or Vcheck - nowadays these reports will show pictures of the car with the damage so you can see for yourself. Not checking the car even when there was a mileage discrepancy was too much of a leap of faith.
The second thing that you shouldn’t have done is to start repairing the car yourself. If there was a water leak or issues losing water, you should have taken your steer from the dealer. If they refused to take responsibility for it you should have put your concerns in writing and then sue at that point. The gearbox leak is a totally different matter and again you shouldn’t have allowed another firm to get involved without at least giving the selling dealer the opportunity to put it right.
Anyway you are where you are. If I were you and depending on your claim, I’d sue the dealer and try your luck. If you’re lucky they may settle before it gets to court, or you’ll get a judgement in your favour.
The second thing that you shouldn’t have done is to start repairing the car yourself. If there was a water leak or issues losing water, you should have taken your steer from the dealer. If they refused to take responsibility for it you should have put your concerns in writing and then sue at that point. The gearbox leak is a totally different matter and again you shouldn’t have allowed another firm to get involved without at least giving the selling dealer the opportunity to put it right.
Anyway you are where you are. If I were you and depending on your claim, I’d sue the dealer and try your luck. If you’re lucky they may settle before it gets to court, or you’ll get a judgement in your favour.
I've pondered a Cat N as a way of getting a car at a discounted price, but I'd have to see photos of it in its damaged state and extensive photographic records of the repair process.
I recently saw a BMW 440i on eBay with very light damage to the nearside front corner. It was listed at £15k for a car which, given its age and mileage, would typically be advertised at £28k. Good deal at face value, but not such a good deal after pricing up replacement parts, paint, labour, etc. It would have ended up costing more than it was worth unless you had the skills and resources to do it yourself.
I recently saw a BMW 440i on eBay with very light damage to the nearside front corner. It was listed at £15k for a car which, given its age and mileage, would typically be advertised at £28k. Good deal at face value, but not such a good deal after pricing up replacement parts, paint, labour, etc. It would have ended up costing more than it was worth unless you had the skills and resources to do it yourself.
Gad-Westy said:
If the accident was rear damage, I cannot see an obvious link at all between coolant and gearbox issues and that type of damage.
I can. Best mate's wife had a Porsche Cayman. Someone ran into the back of it. The damage to the rear bumper appeared very minimal yet a plastic insert in the front bumper had popped out. Whatever shock wave went through the car to cause this could have caused all sorts of hidden damage on its way. The insurance company clearly thought the same and wrote it off.Stop beating yourself up everyone contributing here has made mistakes and will make more . There are a huge amount of Cat S and Cat N vehicles on Autotrader and eBay right now. I have never known such a high proportion. I did an Autotrader search tonight with a set criteria and there were 225 results . I removed Cat cars and it fell to 166. It's mad how many are for sale now .
Mistakes is all about perspective. If you and those you love are well then just move on knowing you won't do this again.
Mistakes is all about perspective. If you and those you love are well then just move on knowing you won't do this again.
Many thanks for the replies and suggesting the vCheck.
I paid £9.99 for the vCheck and have the photos of the damage. The damage is not as bad as I feared, just damage to the rear bumper and body work.
The car is a quattro, so I imagine this is where the gearbox damage came from. The gearbox damage is a bolt actually sheared off the box and internal damage, the kind of damage that could only be caused by an accident.
But - and I wasn't aware of this - the salvage sale was in March 2021 when the car had 10699 miles on the clock. So a second owner has had the car for a good 15000 to 20000 miles before trading it in. I imagine the gearbox was sealed as like a temporary fix (my local garage said we could do this, but it might only last 6 months before the gearbox starts leaking oil again) so if I give the trader the benefit of the doubt, perhaps the gearbox oil only started leaking after I'd bought it.
Never mind. All I can do now is get the car fixed and learn from this experience.
Last time I checked, the car was worth about £21500 part-exchange (discounting being a Cat N.) I'd paid £18995 for it back in September 2022.
Many thanks again for everyone's help on this. I'm very happy I posted as I've leant a lot, it's been very helpful.
And yes, I'll still never ever buy a Cat S/N again in the future.
I paid £9.99 for the vCheck and have the photos of the damage. The damage is not as bad as I feared, just damage to the rear bumper and body work.
The car is a quattro, so I imagine this is where the gearbox damage came from. The gearbox damage is a bolt actually sheared off the box and internal damage, the kind of damage that could only be caused by an accident.
But - and I wasn't aware of this - the salvage sale was in March 2021 when the car had 10699 miles on the clock. So a second owner has had the car for a good 15000 to 20000 miles before trading it in. I imagine the gearbox was sealed as like a temporary fix (my local garage said we could do this, but it might only last 6 months before the gearbox starts leaking oil again) so if I give the trader the benefit of the doubt, perhaps the gearbox oil only started leaking after I'd bought it.
Never mind. All I can do now is get the car fixed and learn from this experience.
Last time I checked, the car was worth about £21500 part-exchange (discounting being a Cat N.) I'd paid £18995 for it back in September 2022.
Many thanks again for everyone's help on this. I'm very happy I posted as I've leant a lot, it's been very helpful.
And yes, I'll still never ever buy a Cat S/N again in the future.
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