Why aren't cameras replacing wing mirrors more widely?
Discussion
It's common to see lorries with cameras instead of wing mirrors these days, but cars such the electric £100K+ EQS still have wing mirrors, even though drag efficiencies are important with BEVs.
The Honda e is the only mainstream production car I can think of that has done the deed.
Why haven't they caught on?
The Honda e is the only mainstream production car I can think of that has done the deed.
Why haven't they caught on?
Cost, obviously.
Additionally, the camera systems only work when the ignition is on. Mirrors work all the time, meaning they can be used by passengers and/or when the car is parked for checking the surroundings.
Mirrors provide a reflected image at different points within the car, meaning that it's possible to have stimulus triggers at different parts of the peripheral vision. Whilst you might not be looking in the nearside mirror, for example, your brain will be aware of it and will alert you if the peripheral vision senses a flicker of movement in said mirror. That will cause you to look in it, thus alerting you to possible hazards existent round the car. Someone behind moving out to overtake is a good example. A constantly moving image on television screens at either end of the dashboard is unlikely to provide the same effect.
Additionally, the camera systems only work when the ignition is on. Mirrors work all the time, meaning they can be used by passengers and/or when the car is parked for checking the surroundings.
Mirrors provide a reflected image at different points within the car, meaning that it's possible to have stimulus triggers at different parts of the peripheral vision. Whilst you might not be looking in the nearside mirror, for example, your brain will be aware of it and will alert you if the peripheral vision senses a flicker of movement in said mirror. That will cause you to look in it, thus alerting you to possible hazards existent round the car. Someone behind moving out to overtake is a good example. A constantly moving image on television screens at either end of the dashboard is unlikely to provide the same effect.
Cold said:
They aren't nearly as good as mirrors not only for depth perception but for shifting in your seat to alter/increase your field of vision.
Yep, I don't want cameras instead of mirrors, the only exception is to replicate a rear view mirror on a van etc that couldn't otherwise have one.Stick them in the same bin as electric handbrakes and touchscreen controls for primary functions.
Speaking as a motorcyclist that daily filters through queues of cars in excess of a mile long, I wish they would become standard They are much smaller than mirrors and consequently the gap between cars is wider. Door mirrors are the widest point of cars and are at just the same height as handlebars.
Vans first please - they are already wider than cars and some of them have mirrors like barn doors attached to poles poking about a foot out from the doors.
Vans first please - they are already wider than cars and some of them have mirrors like barn doors attached to poles poking about a foot out from the doors.
mikey_b said:
Speaking as a motorcyclist that daily filters through queues of cars in excess of a mile long, I wish they would become standard They are much smaller than mirrors and consequently the gap between cars is wider. Door mirrors are the widest point of cars and are at just the same height as handlebars.
Vans first please - they are already wider than cars and some of them have mirrors like barn doors attached to poles poking about a foot out from the doors.
I prefer the lorries vans ETC have mirrors when filtering as you can make eye contact with the drivers if the gap is tight.Vans first please - they are already wider than cars and some of them have mirrors like barn doors attached to poles poking about a foot out from the doors.
Cold said:
They aren't nearly as good as mirrors not only for depth perception but for shifting in your seat to alter/increase your field of vision.
This is the right answer. Plus there's no camera nor display on earth that has the same dynamic range as the human eye. And they are badly affected by water droplets and dirt. Meaning cameras and displays are worse in every objective way than a mirror, with the exception of drag. It's much easier to put a fairing on a mirror than fix the other problems inherent in cameras and displays.InitialDave said:
Yep, I don't want cameras instead of mirrors, the only exception is to replicate a rear view mirror on a van etc that couldn't otherwise have one.
Stick them in the same bin as electric handbrakes and touchscreen controls for primary functions.
This.Stick them in the same bin as electric handbrakes and touchscreen controls for primary functions.
On a product (that should be) designed to last 10+ years, a tech-heavy, cost-heavy camera solution is asking for trouble*. And much like electric handbrakes, the second hand market will probably penalise vehicles that have them.
* And that's before you get to vandalism / casual accidents - to be effective the camera can't really be flush with the side bodywork, so it'll still need to stick-out somewhat. Which makes it almost as physically vulnerable as a mirror, just costing much more to replace. Or it's positioned at the back-corner of the car, but you then end up with a MUCH larger blind spot down the sides of the car.
On lorries they can improve visibility of surroundings because you can put them in places a single mirror won't work.
On cars they decrease visibility. Besides removing the "move your head about" extended view, I'm yet to find a phone or laptop that can adjust the brightness of a screen to accurately compensate for the ambient light levels.
On cars they decrease visibility. Besides removing the "move your head about" extended view, I'm yet to find a phone or laptop that can adjust the brightness of a screen to accurately compensate for the ambient light levels.
Scrump said:
I am guessing cost is the issue.
I suspect the manufacturing cost for a camera based system is actually less than that of a physical mirror once you take into account all of the adjustment motors, folding mechanisms, etc. involved in a physical mirror. An adequate camera for a wing mirror probably costs about £20 and a small colour LCD screen these days costs about the same. As others have said, the problem with camera based systems is that they're rubbish.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 16th March 15:30
donkmeister said:
On lorries they can improve visibility of surroundings because you can put them in places a single mirror won't work.
As someone who was recently hit by a lorry on a dual carriageway and transported quarter of a mile down the road with my car wedged sideways infront of the lorry because they didn't see me, I can 100% agree that lorries need cameras to remove as many of their blind spots as possible!mikey_b said:
Speaking as a motorcyclist that daily filters through queues of cars in excess of a mile long, I wish they would become standard They are much smaller than mirrors and consequently the gap between cars is wider. Door mirrors are the widest point of cars and are at just the same height as handlebars.
Vans first please - they are already wider than cars and some of them have mirrors like barn doors attached to poles poking about a foot out from the doors.
Would you happily replace your mirrors with cameras on your motorbike?Vans first please - they are already wider than cars and some of them have mirrors like barn doors attached to poles poking about a foot out from the doors.
i seem to recall there were legal issues originally in some countries (including the UK) whereby live video streaming was not allowed within the cabin (such as why incar TV screens switch off when you start moving).
Obviously not the case now in the UK, but may still be in other countries?
Obviously not the case now in the UK, but may still be in other countries?
I think they're so gimmicky as to be embarrassing.
Even the Gordon Murray T50 and the AM Valkryie have them, with two silly screens at each corner of the dash. If I was a billionaire and had one on order, i'd ask for them to be removed and proper, little, well designed wing or door mirrors added.
Even the racing version of the T50, the Lauda, has actual mirrors instead unlike the road car.
I think cameras are w
k 
Even the Gordon Murray T50 and the AM Valkryie have them, with two silly screens at each corner of the dash. If I was a billionaire and had one on order, i'd ask for them to be removed and proper, little, well designed wing or door mirrors added.
Even the racing version of the T50, the Lauda, has actual mirrors instead unlike the road car.
I think cameras are w
k I agree that camera should be moved to the bin along with other useless items that have been created.
However if manufacturers want to pursue cameras, why do they need to be where mirrors currently are?
Why not integrate them into the c pillars to look back, integrate them at the top of the A pillar etc. which can make them more compact.
It’s a lazy stupid ‘advancement’ that was marketed and costs an arm and a leg to option, which thankfully, it seems like buyers have realised what silly things they are.
However if manufacturers want to pursue cameras, why do they need to be where mirrors currently are?
Why not integrate them into the c pillars to look back, integrate them at the top of the A pillar etc. which can make them more compact.
It’s a lazy stupid ‘advancement’ that was marketed and costs an arm and a leg to option, which thankfully, it seems like buyers have realised what silly things they are.
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