Aluminium Monocoque Chassis
Discussion
In theory it could be a much simpler way to make a good peformance car. The problems lie in compaability as you can't just move a few bars around to make space for a different shape engine etc. Also, repairs will be more specialist and therefore expensive, so higher insurance too.
Good for performance, bad for costs IMHO
Good for performance, bad for costs IMHO
I see what your saying, but take the design above as an example I would have thought it could accomodate most V engines without too much grief, interesting point on the insurance, how would they know regarding premiums etc? most of these cars are low volume does anyone know how insurance figures are arrived at?
On the repair I agree, repairing ally is more skilled, but wouldnt the damage be more localised?
When replacing a chassis would it not be cheaper as no chassis panelling is involved? less labour?
Thanks
On the repair I agree, repairing ally is more skilled, but wouldnt the damage be more localised?
When replacing a chassis would it not be cheaper as no chassis panelling is involved? less labour?
Thanks
They are begining to appear as a cheap option: Robin Hood are now offering an all alloy light weight chassis that you just poprivet together. it comes in about £1000 cheaper to buy than the B2 (or 2B).
I would have thought that you would have more engine options than a traditional chassis due to its layout and repairs should be very cheap as you just replace the damaged panels.
I would have thought that you would have more engine options than a traditional chassis due to its layout and repairs should be very cheap as you just replace the damaged panels.
Theoretically a monocoque can be stiffer for the same weight.
Cost of materials wise I doubt there is much if anything in it. Manufactuing wise I have no idea.
I think the barrier to these chassis in the kitcar industry has been design. They are much harder to design and to verify that design, it's relatively easy to find FEM software that will analyse a spaceframe, there are consiferably fewer packages that will analyse a monocoque design.
If you were in a serious accident, you're probably going to have to replace a significant porttion of the chassis, but that's likely true of a space frame aswell.
Cost of materials wise I doubt there is much if anything in it. Manufactuing wise I have no idea.
I think the barrier to these chassis in the kitcar industry has been design. They are much harder to design and to verify that design, it's relatively easy to find FEM software that will analyse a spaceframe, there are consiferably fewer packages that will analyse a monocoque design.
If you were in a serious accident, you're probably going to have to replace a significant porttion of the chassis, but that's likely true of a space frame aswell.
I suppose what I am trying to assess opinion on is, if on your chosen kit car you were given the choice between spaceframe or ally monocoque, and the price was the same, what would people go for?
I suppose the lack of them on the market means its not something that most people have considered.
I wonder if any other kit car manufacturers have plans to build this sort of thing?
I suppose the lack of them on the market means its not something that most people have considered.
I wonder if any other kit car manufacturers have plans to build this sort of thing?
Incorrigible said:
Pop rivits shake loose though
Cracking idea, all the same. Are Robin Hood doing that in a seven type car ?
Indeed www.robinhoodengineering.co.uk/Bolteon.htm
Joe T said:One of the reasons I bought the Libra was the composite monocoque tub. It's been tested at 14,000Nm/degree torsional stiffness which isn't bad in any book (better than the Elise apparently).
I suppose what I am trying to assess opinion on is, if on your chosen kit car you were given the choice between spaceframe or ally monocoque, and the price was the same, what would people go for?
Interesting thread this one, bonded alloy structures offer lots of advantages, but the technology in treating and curing the extrusions makes it difficult to do cost effectively in low volumes. In modern bonded alloy structures rivets are not used for strength, just to hold the extrusions in place in the jigs as the chassis go through the curing process allowing the adhesives to bond the extrusions together.
I am about to launch (target January) a Subaru Impreza Turbo based kit car initially using a GRP monocoque construction, with the Mark 2 version due in two years time using a bonded alloy structure.
This will be a radical departure from the component car norm of seven or replica styles as it has totally contemporary styling, and of course that iconic Impreza drivetrain.
Two versions will be available initially, fully trimmed option, or a stripped out road racer.
The fully trimmed development mule comes in at just under 900kgs, with the donor vehicle being a 260hp imported WRX. Performance as you would expect is, how should I put this, strong!!
Target weight for the stripped out version will be 825kgs, and a demondtrator using the 280hp STI as a donor is planned for the new year.
Total build price for a reasonable specification home built vehicle will be in the £12-15k mark.
Interested parties can e-mail me, and as launch date approaches I will keep all informed of what is happening. Indeed, I will be looking to invite a panel of independant people to test the vehicle prior to final launch so you may find yourselves driving this car before any of the mainstream pres get their hands on it!!
I am about to launch (target January) a Subaru Impreza Turbo based kit car initially using a GRP monocoque construction, with the Mark 2 version due in two years time using a bonded alloy structure.
This will be a radical departure from the component car norm of seven or replica styles as it has totally contemporary styling, and of course that iconic Impreza drivetrain.
Two versions will be available initially, fully trimmed option, or a stripped out road racer.
The fully trimmed development mule comes in at just under 900kgs, with the donor vehicle being a 260hp imported WRX. Performance as you would expect is, how should I put this, strong!!
Target weight for the stripped out version will be 825kgs, and a demondtrator using the 280hp STI as a donor is planned for the new year.
Total build price for a reasonable specification home built vehicle will be in the £12-15k mark.
Interested parties can e-mail me, and as launch date approaches I will keep all informed of what is happening. Indeed, I will be looking to invite a panel of independant people to test the vehicle prior to final launch so you may find yourselves driving this car before any of the mainstream pres get their hands on it!!
Front engine, four wheel drive, most of drivetrain being straight bolt over job to enable simple home build.
2 seater soft top with optional hard top.
Definately designed to be everyday realistic for people who need one car for all purposes.
Of course stripped out version for those just needing big rushes! Impreza type R is a donor option for the really brave, with DCCD and hand brake release box as standard!!
Lets hope that the industry and buying public support some one trying to do something different and new.
2 seater soft top with optional hard top.
Definately designed to be everyday realistic for people who need one car for all purposes.
Of course stripped out version for those just needing big rushes! Impreza type R is a donor option for the really brave, with DCCD and hand brake release box as standard!!
Lets hope that the industry and buying public support some one trying to do something different and new.
What about a semi-monocoque chassis? This way you could design chassis that is truly buildable for the amateur enthusiast in his garage. Why limit yourself to just alluminium though when you could use other materials that can be formed easily like fiberglass, plastics and other exotics.
With the project in question the chassis will be alloy, but the bodywork will still all be GRP layup. The build would be very easy for the DIY market as all components will simply bolt up to the alloy structure, which will be deliverd complete.
This is some way off however, with the initial kits being a GRP monocoque to which engine/drivetrain sub assemblies will attach, making for a very straigtforward build with superb torsional rigidity.
This is some way off however, with the initial kits being a GRP monocoque to which engine/drivetrain sub assemblies will attach, making for a very straigtforward build with superb torsional rigidity.
revo1101
It reminds me a lot of the Delfino Feroce
www.delfino.co.uk/index.htm
the early and first car, not the later now being shown on the website.
I remeber that the first prototype was based on a Minari, with modyfied bodywork and running gear. Both founders of the Minari were involved at the beginning of the project, and it was an upmarket development of the Alfa based Kit.
Should have had more luck, unfortunately it didn't have enough support and financial backing.
Will be following your project, I believe you have a winner as a concept;
It reminds me a lot of the Delfino Feroce
www.delfino.co.uk/index.htm
the early and first car, not the later now being shown on the website.
I remeber that the first prototype was based on a Minari, with modyfied bodywork and running gear. Both founders of the Minari were involved at the beginning of the project, and it was an upmarket development of the Alfa based Kit.
Should have had more luck, unfortunately it didn't have enough support and financial backing.
Will be following your project, I believe you have a winner as a concept;
Besides the obvious reason of increased rigidity of monocoque design, OTHER reasons robin hood produced the monocoque'd chassis'd lightweight are :
- international export: the design can be boxed and shipped MUCH MORE easily than a fully welded tubular chassis. in fact, see the prominent advertizing for export agent on the robin hood web page, *and* their advertizing shipping to almost anywhere!!
- production costs: the costs to produce basically cookie cutter chassis/body panels is obviously much less than the cost of precision welding a tubular space-frame. This fact is obviously reflected in the price of the robin hood lightweight.
All round, i think it is a great concept...especially considering the EXTREME lack of a even semi complete locost 7 KIT in the US market. I just hope that i can get it past the rules in the NASA Seven Series Challenge!!!
- international export: the design can be boxed and shipped MUCH MORE easily than a fully welded tubular chassis. in fact, see the prominent advertizing for export agent on the robin hood web page, *and* their advertizing shipping to almost anywhere!!
- production costs: the costs to produce basically cookie cutter chassis/body panels is obviously much less than the cost of precision welding a tubular space-frame. This fact is obviously reflected in the price of the robin hood lightweight.
All round, i think it is a great concept...especially considering the EXTREME lack of a even semi complete locost 7 KIT in the US market. I just hope that i can get it past the rules in the NASA Seven Series Challenge!!!
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