RE: Baby Maser on the way
Wednesday 24th August 2005
Alfa-sired baby on the wayMaserati is make a baby Quattroporte, according to this week's Autocar.
Baby Maser on the way
Quattroporte to spawn a sporty exec's car
Alfa-sired baby on the way
Running on the same platform as the Alfa Romeo 159 -- due out in November -- it will get four-wheel drive and a V8 engine. It's designed as a mainstream, sporty executive machine to replace parent company Alfa's slow-selling 166.
The idea is that the two marques running side by side, in the form of the new, smaller Quattroporte and the next generation 166, will improve their visibility to buyers in this highly desirable (from a vendor's point of view) middle market.
Expect the car to be around the same size as an Audi A6, suspended on double wishbones front and rear, active anti-rollbars and active rear diff to apportion torque to the two rear wheels. Motive power will come from a GM-sourced 4.6-litre Northstar V8, modified to deliver 290bhp.
Europe will also need a diesel -- but one suspects that Alfa's 200bhp 2.4-litre five-cylinder unit in the 159 won't be potent enough for the job, so that's a story for the future.
With the transfer from Ferrari to Alfa now complete, this looks like Maserati's best chance to break out of what Autocar describes as "it's tiny niche-market status". Expect the car in 2008.
Discussion
I think it could work - if you can have a good solid luxury saloon al la XJR making solid sales for the marque I'd see that as a positive platform to build further more luxurious / sporty projects.
The engine and chassis may be sourced from Alfa / GM but they won't stay that way - MAserati ahve good technical staff and you can bet everything you ahve that the engine won't perform or sound like a GM lump by the time it's been fettled...
Well it would be nice.
Still think the rumour about Maserati looking at producing a 40kish lightweight sportscar / trackcar would be interesting - something along the lines of the caymann from porsche would be interesting ..
>> Edited by mr_tony on Wednesday 24th August 12:06
The engine and chassis may be sourced from Alfa / GM but they won't stay that way - MAserati ahve good technical staff and you can bet everything you ahve that the engine won't perform or sound like a GM lump by the time it's been fettled...
Well it would be nice.
Still think the rumour about Maserati looking at producing a 40kish lightweight sportscar / trackcar would be interesting - something along the lines of the caymann from porsche would be interesting ..
>> Edited by mr_tony on Wednesday 24th August 12:06
A sad day. Why not just re-badge a Fiat multipla with a masser badge and some leather trim while they are at it.
Maserati used to make things, cars, lathes, vertical drills, light trucks, motorcycles, racing cars etc. Now it seems the powers that be are happy to brand things instead.
Maserati used to make things, cars, lathes, vertical drills, light trucks, motorcycles, racing cars etc. Now it seems the powers that be are happy to brand things instead.
oagent said:
A sad day. Why not just re-badge a Fiat multipla with a masser badge and some leather trim while they are at it.
Maserati used to make things, cars, lathes, vertical drills, light trucks, motorcycles, racing cars etc. Now it seems the powers that be are happy to brand things instead.
Hmmm Maserati became a brand rather than an engineering firm as soon as it stopped being owned by the Maserati Brothers!
Of course great cars ahve been produced since then, but few ahve been created wiout using parts form various other manufacturers parts bins.
After all cars like the Bora are essentially using Citroen components. Doesn't make it any less of a MAserati does it? (IMHO)...
It grieves me a bit too - I would like to see MASerati rased along side Ferrari to make truly luxurious GT cars, but there is such a small market for these vehicles and the overlap with Ferrari is so large that realistically that isn't going to happen unless someone buys out MAserati - and I doubt having resurected the Brand reasonably sucessfully Alfa/Fiat/Ferrari/GM will not be selling!
I agree. Just as Maserati are doing great things - don't cheapen the brand. Take the new model too cheap and its a 159, too expensive and good and it'll steal sales from the QP and make that the same as Alfa's 166 good car/financial nightmare.
Porsche can pull it off, Maserati is not yet solid enough.
Porsche can pull it off, Maserati is not yet solid enough.
Porsche tried the 4 inline way . . . and that didn't really work out . . . powerwise the 944 went up in the 911 direction.
So Maserati has to put in a V8 because Alfa has the V6 . . . Difficult.
I'm thinking of a smaller V8 car . . . And with decent Masser-looks. In the same way DB7-9 look . . .
So Maserati has to put in a V8 because Alfa has the V6 . . . Difficult.
I'm thinking of a smaller V8 car . . . And with decent Masser-looks. In the same way DB7-9 look . . .
r988 said:
Would be better if they put in a Ferrari based V8 and made a modern day Lancia Thema 8.32, except with 4WD to take advantage of the power, now theres an idea, the GM engine is just doesn't sem right somehow.
Or possibly a productionised V6 version of that engine to use in the Masser and Alfa
maser sod said:
"Motive power will come from a GM-sourced 4.6-litre Northstar V8, modified to deliver 290bhp."
Wow, that it some detuning - I wonder what they mean by 'modified': filling 2 of the cylinders with cement?
Actually, its not tuned up or down. That's the exact power that engine makes in the DeVille. The modding is for AWD, as the caddy is Front-drive.
Gentelman said:
"Motive power will come from a GM-sourced 4.6-litre Northstar V8, modified to deliver 290bhp."
Wow, that it some detuning - I wonder what they mean by 'modified': filling 2 of the cylinders with cement?
Actually, its not tuned up or down. That's the exact power that engine makes in the DeVille. The modding is for AWD, as the caddy is Front-drive.
hmm, well the current maserati 4.2 V8 generates 100 brake more, so it seems a rather curious step forward.
Not sure many of the current Maserati customer base would be interested in upgrading to something which is bound to be slower.
I wondered what would happen with the recent strategic separation of Maserati from Ferrari and attachment to AR. If this is the roadmap going forward, then Maserati will gain a new and broader customer base, but will probably lose the vast majority of their (admittedly small) existing base.
maser sod said:
hmm, well the current maserati 4.2 V8 generates 100 brake more, so it seems a rather curious step forward.
Not sure many of the current Maserati customer base would be interested in upgrading to something which is bound to be slower.
Good point, that hadn't occurred to me. Perhaps they're hoping this engine will be more than adequate when they swap a small Maser body on instead of the 4000-lb elephant it normally has to pull.
That doesn't explain the earlier statement that Ferrari will still be supplying engines to Maserati. I thought part of the split was because that was too expensive.
maser sod said:
...Not sure many of the current Maserati customer base would be interested in upgrading to something which is bound to be slower
I think this could correctly be termed a downgrade rather than an upgrade.
gentelman said:
That doesn't explain the earlier statement that Ferrari will still be supplying engines to Maserati. I thought part of the split was because that was too expensive.
The split was down to Fiat, the majority Owners of both Ferrari and Maserati, who were in a financial pickle and saw an opportunity to float off part of Ferrari - Not yet taken place but still very much on the cards. However, they needed to clear the (Ferrari) decks to achieve this by removing the (so they say) loss making Maserati section.
Of course, the development work on the 4200 engine by Ferrari has clearly been paid for by Maserati but at a cost unknown. What is understood is that Ferrari's own F430 powerplant is a derivative of their Maserati design and therefore one can assume the development costs have been partially (even largely) offset by their previous work bought and paid for by Maserati. If correct, the net result contributes to a healthy Ferrari balance sheet and a loss making Maserati section.
>> Edited by nigelo on Thursday 25th August 20:19
>> Edited by nigelo on Thursday 25th August 20:20
I don't think so for one moment and imagine similar questions were asked by Ferrari owners in years gone by when Fiat first bought a controlling interest in Ferrari from Enzo himself. Depending on how Alfa and Maserati model range pan out, you may even see Maserati dealers servicing Alfa's new top of the range.
One thing is for sure, the Ferrari Maserati dealers are not going to give up lucrative trade unless forced and neither Ferrari nor Maserati are going to prejudice a hard won worldwide dealer franchise.
One thing is for sure, the Ferrari Maserati dealers are not going to give up lucrative trade unless forced and neither Ferrari nor Maserati are going to prejudice a hard won worldwide dealer franchise.
I'm hoping the strategy calls for the GM based V8 to be used ONLY in the entry level (cheaper) models.
I would also hope that the powers that be realise that using this engine alone may well hurt the marques image, hence the decision to try and revive the next gen Coupe/Spyder using a "proper" V8 engine.
I would also hope that the powers that be realise that using this engine alone may well hurt the marques image, hence the decision to try and revive the next gen Coupe/Spyder using a "proper" V8 engine.
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