Mis-sold undeclared CAT N C63 by dealer (HPI showed clear)
Discussion
Good Morning pistonheads,
Haven't posted on here in a very long time, wondering if you guys could help me as I'm out of pocket £1000's due to being mis-sold a W204 C63, appreciate any help you could give me as this has really screwed me over and tainted my car ownership of a car I saved up for 4 years for
I will keep this as concise as possible as its a pretty long story
Hunted throughout 2021 for a W204 C63 Saloon, car I've always wanted, never owned anything close to this calibre/performance before with the exception of a M240i years ago
Found one with ideal price, spec, full service history in December 2021. I did alot of research on W204 C63's before buying and was aware of all the common problems
Fully researched the dealer based in North-west London, had great reviews and had been active for a long time. Spoke to the dealer at length about the car and was happy with all the answers given. He sent over the service history, MOT History etc and it all checked out. There was one minor mileage discrepancy in the MOT but when checked against the service history dates and divided by 1.6 it turned out the mileage had incorrectly been listed in KM
I was satisfied that after months of looking and years of saving that this was the car I was after. I agreed to pay a deposit to secure the car and booked a Friday off work to go and collect.
2 days before I did a car history check for £15 online which all came back clear, no issues whatsoever. I will not name the company of the car history check I used yet (will be explained why further down)
Travelled from Manchester (where I live) to London on the Friday to collect. Checked all over the car, test drove it and was very happy. I part-exed my current Mk 4 Golf (abit of a step up I know! Had this for 18 months while saving up for the C63) and paid the balance. Car was £25k, I paid via debit card
I was made up with the car and adored it, drove it with no issues, kept ontop of the servicing and to this date have had no mechanical problems whatsoever (just gone through alot of tyres!)
Fast forward to November 2022, I decided I needed to sell the car (to free up cash) as I was potentially looking at buying a second property
Listed the car on a buyers group on Facebook. Had quite of bit of interest but mainly typical tyre kickers saying they will pick the car up from me the next day with cash in a tesco bag for 40% less than what I listed it for.
However I had a message from someone saying 'That's my old car, really miss her!'
I replied telling him how much I've enjoyed the car and how I'm gutted to be selling up. Out of interest I asked him when he owned it and how long for.
Well...
He said he had it for about a year (bought during COVID 2020) and sold it to WBAC in 2021 (when the prices went crazy). Said he made money on it (not surprised)
He stated he tried to sell private but was shown by a potential buyer that the car was scrapped in 2018 and was a CAT N
Well, you can kind of guess my reaction. No way, not possible.........
I stated that I had carried out a car history check 2 days before buying and there was nothing picked up atall, definitely not recorded as a write off!
Panicking, I went straight online and purchased another car history check from a different 3rd party
Low and behold....
There is was, sat in a scrapyard with damage to the front and rear bumpers and smashed lights, CAT N write off in 2018
Don't really know how to put into words how I felt at this point, there was the car that I had saved up for 4 years for, paid 25k cash for and had been driving around in for a whole year not knowing that it was a write off
How can this have happened, I did all my research, dealer checked out, bought a car history check all clear and unknown to me I was driving around in this car that had been scrapped
How could the history check not have picked this up? When others have? The one which actually showed it was cheaper than the one I originally bought, it was only £10!
Absolutely gutted, ownership tainted. Car has never felt the same, which leads me onto the below. I'm now left with a car which is worth alot less than what I paid for it and not down to depreciation!
From December 2022 to the present I have been back and forth with the company who I bought the history check from as I lodged a complaint. I really, really don't have the energy to go into detail here about this battle as I've been pulling my hair out with it.
Long story short, they eventually admitted (after 3 months battling) that they were at fault with the write off marker being missing from their check, however they have violated their terms and conditions which state that I am entitled to the loss in value of my car due to the missing insurance marker coming to light. Basically, they said 'when you sell the car, we will send you some money'
Beyond a joke, 'how much money?, when will you send this to me? how much do I list my car for?' The whole correspondence with their customer care team has been a joke and has involved nearly 30 emails from me
I directly quoted their terms and conditions back to them stating 'Where ownership of the vehicle is retained, you are entitled to the loss in value of the vehicle from a missing write off marker coming to light'. I don't have to sell the vehicle to get what I am owed, as when I eventually get this shortfall, I will be able to list it at its correct price being a CAT N.
They continually ignored me, so after 4 months I gave them one final week so respond otherwise I will be issuing a claim with the small claims court. No response, so I have lodged a claim for the loss in value with the courts and they have been issued the papers this week and they have 14 days to respond
I have decided to keep the car for the summer until a have a resolution
Some of you may be wondering, 'why didn't you go back to the original dealer who you bought it from?'
Well, I didn't think I would have a case a year on from buying the car and after putting 7000 miles on it.
Do you guys think I've got any case with the dealer of mis-selling me the car? Working out the ownership history they bought it at auction from WBAC
Sorry for the long post guys, I would appreciate any help or guidance you could give me
Really, really gutted
Haven't posted on here in a very long time, wondering if you guys could help me as I'm out of pocket £1000's due to being mis-sold a W204 C63, appreciate any help you could give me as this has really screwed me over and tainted my car ownership of a car I saved up for 4 years for
I will keep this as concise as possible as its a pretty long story
Hunted throughout 2021 for a W204 C63 Saloon, car I've always wanted, never owned anything close to this calibre/performance before with the exception of a M240i years ago
Found one with ideal price, spec, full service history in December 2021. I did alot of research on W204 C63's before buying and was aware of all the common problems
Fully researched the dealer based in North-west London, had great reviews and had been active for a long time. Spoke to the dealer at length about the car and was happy with all the answers given. He sent over the service history, MOT History etc and it all checked out. There was one minor mileage discrepancy in the MOT but when checked against the service history dates and divided by 1.6 it turned out the mileage had incorrectly been listed in KM
I was satisfied that after months of looking and years of saving that this was the car I was after. I agreed to pay a deposit to secure the car and booked a Friday off work to go and collect.
2 days before I did a car history check for £15 online which all came back clear, no issues whatsoever. I will not name the company of the car history check I used yet (will be explained why further down)
Travelled from Manchester (where I live) to London on the Friday to collect. Checked all over the car, test drove it and was very happy. I part-exed my current Mk 4 Golf (abit of a step up I know! Had this for 18 months while saving up for the C63) and paid the balance. Car was £25k, I paid via debit card
I was made up with the car and adored it, drove it with no issues, kept ontop of the servicing and to this date have had no mechanical problems whatsoever (just gone through alot of tyres!)
Fast forward to November 2022, I decided I needed to sell the car (to free up cash) as I was potentially looking at buying a second property
Listed the car on a buyers group on Facebook. Had quite of bit of interest but mainly typical tyre kickers saying they will pick the car up from me the next day with cash in a tesco bag for 40% less than what I listed it for.
However I had a message from someone saying 'That's my old car, really miss her!'
I replied telling him how much I've enjoyed the car and how I'm gutted to be selling up. Out of interest I asked him when he owned it and how long for.
Well...
He said he had it for about a year (bought during COVID 2020) and sold it to WBAC in 2021 (when the prices went crazy). Said he made money on it (not surprised)
He stated he tried to sell private but was shown by a potential buyer that the car was scrapped in 2018 and was a CAT N
Well, you can kind of guess my reaction. No way, not possible.........
I stated that I had carried out a car history check 2 days before buying and there was nothing picked up atall, definitely not recorded as a write off!
Panicking, I went straight online and purchased another car history check from a different 3rd party
Low and behold....
There is was, sat in a scrapyard with damage to the front and rear bumpers and smashed lights, CAT N write off in 2018
Don't really know how to put into words how I felt at this point, there was the car that I had saved up for 4 years for, paid 25k cash for and had been driving around in for a whole year not knowing that it was a write off
How can this have happened, I did all my research, dealer checked out, bought a car history check all clear and unknown to me I was driving around in this car that had been scrapped
How could the history check not have picked this up? When others have? The one which actually showed it was cheaper than the one I originally bought, it was only £10!
Absolutely gutted, ownership tainted. Car has never felt the same, which leads me onto the below. I'm now left with a car which is worth alot less than what I paid for it and not down to depreciation!
From December 2022 to the present I have been back and forth with the company who I bought the history check from as I lodged a complaint. I really, really don't have the energy to go into detail here about this battle as I've been pulling my hair out with it.
Long story short, they eventually admitted (after 3 months battling) that they were at fault with the write off marker being missing from their check, however they have violated their terms and conditions which state that I am entitled to the loss in value of my car due to the missing insurance marker coming to light. Basically, they said 'when you sell the car, we will send you some money'
Beyond a joke, 'how much money?, when will you send this to me? how much do I list my car for?' The whole correspondence with their customer care team has been a joke and has involved nearly 30 emails from me
I directly quoted their terms and conditions back to them stating 'Where ownership of the vehicle is retained, you are entitled to the loss in value of the vehicle from a missing write off marker coming to light'. I don't have to sell the vehicle to get what I am owed, as when I eventually get this shortfall, I will be able to list it at its correct price being a CAT N.
They continually ignored me, so after 4 months I gave them one final week so respond otherwise I will be issuing a claim with the small claims court. No response, so I have lodged a claim for the loss in value with the courts and they have been issued the papers this week and they have 14 days to respond
I have decided to keep the car for the summer until a have a resolution
Some of you may be wondering, 'why didn't you go back to the original dealer who you bought it from?'
Well, I didn't think I would have a case a year on from buying the car and after putting 7000 miles on it.
Do you guys think I've got any case with the dealer of mis-selling me the car? Working out the ownership history they bought it at auction from WBAC
Sorry for the long post guys, I would appreciate any help or guidance you could give me
Really, really gutted
Was the car actually written off on the HPI register as a Cat N? or was it just smashed up for sale on copart with the damage described as write off, non-structural?
Is there any evidence on the car itself of a previous repair, that an expert (the dealer) should've spotted?
I think the fact you paid for an HPI check and they've agreed it's their fault is your golden ticket at the moment.
Is there any evidence on the car itself of a previous repair, that an expert (the dealer) should've spotted?
I think the fact you paid for an HPI check and they've agreed it's their fault is your golden ticket at the moment.
Jakg said:
Was the car actually written off on the HPI register as a Cat N? or was it just smashed up for sale on copart with the damage described as write off, non-structural?
Is there any evidence on the car itself of a previous repair, that an expert (the dealer) should've spotted?
I think the fact you paid for an HPI check and they've agreed it's their fault is your golden ticket at the moment.
I'm not too sure if I'm honest. I just thought it was strange that the other car history checks picked up but the one I originally bought didn'tIs there any evidence on the car itself of a previous repair, that an expert (the dealer) should've spotted?
I think the fact you paid for an HPI check and they've agreed it's their fault is your golden ticket at the moment.
Strangely, I put in on autotrader (but didn't post an advert) just to see if autotrader picked it up with their auto-checks, it didn't - came back clean.
However since the vehicle history check company have acknowledged it was missed 'after they had spoken to the insurance company' it auto recognises it as a CAT N......
IANAL
I think you will prove that you are owed money now. From what you've told us of the T's & C's it sounds clear. I suspect the court will side with you on this. The other party may not even contend the issue.
I also think you will struggle to prove exactly how much money you are owed. It's possible that the other party will try to low ball and focus their efforts on reducing the payout.
I think you will prove that you are owed money now. From what you've told us of the T's & C's it sounds clear. I suspect the court will side with you on this. The other party may not even contend the issue.
I also think you will struggle to prove exactly how much money you are owed. It's possible that the other party will try to low ball and focus their efforts on reducing the payout.
Sounds like a really, really crap situation and I feel for you fella. The fact that you undertook checks prior too, is all the more galling and whomever you checked with - it's appalling their system missed it.
A couple of ideas/thoughts - Citizens Advice have a series of dedicated solicitors (for various issues) - they usually give you a 30 mins session free.
And trading standards - get in touch - it feels like there's a real issue here (and the fact they're ignoring you is worrying). Do they have the money to reimburse you? Is it a well known 'car checker'?
Good luck - sincerely hope it works out for you. Was the car priced a full value or slightly cheaper when you bought it? Could there be a hint that the dealer knew there was an issue perhaps?
A couple of ideas/thoughts - Citizens Advice have a series of dedicated solicitors (for various issues) - they usually give you a 30 mins session free.
And trading standards - get in touch - it feels like there's a real issue here (and the fact they're ignoring you is worrying). Do they have the money to reimburse you? Is it a well known 'car checker'?
Good luck - sincerely hope it works out for you. Was the car priced a full value or slightly cheaper when you bought it? Could there be a hint that the dealer knew there was an issue perhaps?
ElliotL92 said:
So gutting as the car hasn't missed a beat in 16 months of ownership. I keep trying to think when I'm driving it that 'apart from the money I've lost in the loss of value, what does it matter?, Car is fine'
I still enjoy it alot, just at the back of my mind...
Feel for you but only you can decide whether to keep the car or not. I still enjoy it alot, just at the back of my mind...
I would as the last poster also suggested be speaking to the garage that sold it to you though as well.
If you are sure that the difference is “only “ 5k ( which to me didn’t sound as if the gap would be as little as this ) but you love the car then assuming you still plan on selling it I would proceed with the credit check route claim and the dealer simultaneously so at least one way or another you get back what you paid for it.
On the other hand if you have changed your mind about selling then I would still be claiming the difference now from both and just carry on loving the car.
SimonTheSailor said:
SmoothCriminal said:
They misrepresented the car as clean when it's a category write off
Unless they used the same HPI check ?Although op hasn't said he has had any dialogue with the dealer and surely they would have provided their hpi at point of sale so pretty pointless doing the same one again?
SmoothCriminal said:
Why have you not been back to the dealer?
They misrepresented the car as clean when it's a category write off
Because I don't think I'll have a case 16 months on and 7000 miles later, I don't have a copy of the advert saved and I think they will just state their checks showed it HPI clear They misrepresented the car as clean when it's a category write off
However it seems some people here think its worth speaking to them...
Either way once this is concluded I will be leaving them a review detailing all this
ElliotL92 said:
SmoothCriminal said:
Why have you not been back to the dealer?
They misrepresented the car as clean when it's a category write off
Because I don't think I'll have a case 16 months on and 7000 miles later, I don't have a copy of the advert saved and I think they will just state their checks showed it HPI clear They misrepresented the car as clean when it's a category write off
However it seems some people here think its worth speaking to them...
Either way once this is concluded I will be leaving them a review detailing all this
Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:
Sounds like a really, really crap situation and I feel for you fella. The fact that you undertook checks prior too, is all the more galling and whomever you checked with - it's appalling their system missed it.
A couple of ideas/thoughts - Citizens Advice have a series of dedicated solicitors (for various issues) - they usually give you a 30 mins session free.
And trading standards - get in touch - it feels like there's a real issue here (and the fact they're ignoring you is worrying). Do they have the money to reimburse you? Is it a well known 'car checker'?
Good luck - sincerely hope it works out for you. Was the car priced a full value or slightly cheaper when you bought it? Could there be a hint that the dealer knew there was an issue perhaps?
Thanks pal, I will give them a tryA couple of ideas/thoughts - Citizens Advice have a series of dedicated solicitors (for various issues) - they usually give you a 30 mins session free.
And trading standards - get in touch - it feels like there's a real issue here (and the fact they're ignoring you is worrying). Do they have the money to reimburse you? Is it a well known 'car checker'?
Good luck - sincerely hope it works out for you. Was the car priced a full value or slightly cheaper when you bought it? Could there be a hint that the dealer knew there was an issue perhaps?
Oh yes, the vehicle history check company is a PLC and have a annual turnover in the 100's of millions. But the way their customer service has dealt with it is despicable. No empathy or apology or anything, its sounds like their customer service department have no clue how to deal with it. What I don't get is, they didn't even respond when I said I will take them to court. They are banged to rights as per their T's & C'S. You would think they would want to resolve it to stop it ever happening again and prevent more claims!
Essentially you have two routes of recourse. The "HPI" check which has a specifically worded guarantee which you are on your way to get the company to honour with a small claims action. That feels very positive. Then you have the dealer who has a liability in the matter as well. This feels harder as they will likely be slippery, claim they did all they needed to (with a clean check) and not be interested. But they still have a statutory liability.
I would:
A carry on with the claim against the check company and in parallel
B contact the dealer, let them know and tell them that they have a liability as well.
So if A fails completely, you have a plan B. Also if A fails partially so you don't get an appropriate amount of money from them under their contractual terms you have potential (if likely harder) recourse to the dealer as well
Bert
I would:
A carry on with the claim against the check company and in parallel
B contact the dealer, let them know and tell them that they have a liability as well.
So if A fails completely, you have a plan B. Also if A fails partially so you don't get an appropriate amount of money from them under their contractual terms you have potential (if likely harder) recourse to the dealer as well
Bert
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