Thumping sound whilst driving
Discussion
Hazuki said:
It sounds like a wheel bearing, so that's the first thing I checked.
Usual Suspects - all tested with all 4 wheels in the air, on axle stands.
I highlight this, as everywhere I've read on Google says that brake bind does not sound like a wheel bearing, and sounds more like a scraping sound... but I honestly don't know what else it could be.
Does anyone have any experience with this sort of stuff that can point me to something I may not have mentioned yet / or if binding or warped brakes can cause a wheel bearing type of sound whilst on the move?
Cheers!
It's quite possible that the problem is still a wheel bearing, as I have had a wheel bearing which had completely 0 free play but was very loud at 40mph+.Usual Suspects - all tested with all 4 wheels in the air, on axle stands.
- Wheel Bearings - I spun all 4 wheels and noted there is much more resistance in the FR and RL wheels. I rocked each wheel at the 12-6 & 3-9 positions and it was completely solid, so checked the last two wheels and there was zero play in those either. On that basis, I've ruled out a problem with the wheel bearings.
- Tyres - I spun each wheel and ran my hand over the tread to look for any feathering / flat spots. I could see a very slight flat spot on all 4 wheels so as a precaution, I swapped all 4 wheels with a set of winter wheels I had in the garage. When I took it for a test drive I was surprised to find that the sound got worse, and was even more noticeable at lower speeds. Swapping back to the alloys has dampened the sound to the level it was before.
- Brakes - As mentioned above, there is much more resistance in the FR and RL wheels, and it looks like it's a case of brake bind on both corners. The rear rotors is particularly rusty and pitted, so is definitely going to get changed once the parts arrive (see pic below) but it looks like the pad is only making contact on a small area. Spinning this particular wheel also gives the impression that the disk is slightly warped, as there is a section that has much more resistance than the rest.
I highlight this, as everywhere I've read on Google says that brake bind does not sound like a wheel bearing, and sounds more like a scraping sound... but I honestly don't know what else it could be.
Does anyone have any experience with this sort of stuff that can point me to something I may not have mentioned yet / or if binding or warped brakes can cause a wheel bearing type of sound whilst on the move?
Cheers!
Edited by Hazuki on Saturday 15th April 15:44
There was no free play, and spinning the wheel by hand seemed perfectly fine.
I found the fault by jacking up the car, putting a wheel bolt socket on with a small bar (a ratchet may do) and spinning the wheel faster than I could by hand. I heard the noise then and replacing the problem wheel bearing.
Even if it's not a wheel bearing, this method may let you spin the wheel faster and hear/feel the problem wheel.
I would focus on the wheels with the higher resistance first and see what you find.
If you're not sure if the problem is the brake, you can also remove the brake caliper and spin the wheel to see if the problem goes away.
It sounds like your dad's car might need some brake work anyway, so if the discs and pads are on the way out then it might be worth replacing. Depending on cost, it might be worthwhile replacing parts while you're in there as things like solid rear discs etc can be very cheap.
If it was my car, I'd also be removing the slide pins (assuming sliding calipers) and greasing them with sillicone grease, and checking the brake pistons move freely.
EDIT: those discs look like they need replacing to me. Not sure I'd spend much time troubleshooting them to find the exact cause until I replaced them. Also confirming that the calipers are not seized/fixing if required. I don't think you're missing anything and have done a good job so far trying to find the cause.
Other possible cause could be something like a CV joint, but normally you hear this when going round a bend.
Edited by johnsmith222 on Saturday 15th April 15:59
^^^^^Similar experience with a front wheel bearing on a 307.
Was corrosion on one of the bearing tracks. Part of the surface the bearings ran on had pitted.
And same bearing surface issue on the gearbox of a 306 - we initially though the clicking was the cv joint but it did it all the time & regardless of the steering.
Was corrosion on one of the bearing tracks. Part of the surface the bearings ran on had pitted.
And same bearing surface issue on the gearbox of a 306 - we initially though the clicking was the cv joint but it did it all the time & regardless of the steering.
Edited by paintman on Saturday 15th April 20:58
As above, don't rule out wheel bearings yet.
It looks like pads & discs all round with a bit of exercise/greasing of the right parts would be a benefit if that pic is anything like representative of the others.
It would likely push the bounds for an MOT anyway, so no harm at all.
Fix what needs fixing & then see where you get to.
It may also help to get someone else in the car/drive down a narrow road with high walls on both sides with the windows open to hear it from the outside, or even stand at the side of the road whilst pops drives past.
It looks like pads & discs all round with a bit of exercise/greasing of the right parts would be a benefit if that pic is anything like representative of the others.
It would likely push the bounds for an MOT anyway, so no harm at all.
Fix what needs fixing & then see where you get to.
It may also help to get someone else in the car/drive down a narrow road with high walls on both sides with the windows open to hear it from the outside, or even stand at the side of the road whilst pops drives past.
paintman said:
^^^^^Similar experience with a front wheel bearing on a 307.
Was corrosion on one of the bearing tracks. Part of the surface the bearings ran on had pitted.
And same bearing surface issue on the gearbox of a 306 - we initially though the clicking was the cv joint but it did it all the time & regardless of the steering.
Years ago I had exactly the same on an old Mini. Zero play at the wheel but a definite thumping which increased with speed/wheel rotation. Was corrosion on one of the bearing tracks. Part of the surface the bearings ran on had pitted.
And same bearing surface issue on the gearbox of a 306 - we initially though the clicking was the cv joint but it did it all the time & regardless of the steering.
When I gave up trying to pinpoint the noise and just stripped the offending corner I found pitting on one of the ball bearings. Just one ball and it made a heck of a lot of noise/vibration. If it had been more than one then the sound would have been a steady/constant grind and no doubt there would be play at the wheel.
Mate with a garage business brought round a Mk2 Focus today, presenting with a similar noise to the OP, seeking my opinion.
We concurred that it was a front wheel bearing, but difficult to determine which one from just a road test. He still wasn't sure which side when running it up on the ramp, it clearly was dependent on load. He thought he could feel a faint roughness one side compared to the other, this was with the pads out, his next step would've been with the shafts out!
He texted me tonight, it was indeed the wheel bearing. It had absolutely no play in it but, upon taking the bearing apart, he found just on scar in one of the outer races... less than 5mm in diameter.
Fixed.
We concurred that it was a front wheel bearing, but difficult to determine which one from just a road test. He still wasn't sure which side when running it up on the ramp, it clearly was dependent on load. He thought he could feel a faint roughness one side compared to the other, this was with the pads out, his next step would've been with the shafts out!
He texted me tonight, it was indeed the wheel bearing. It had absolutely no play in it but, upon taking the bearing apart, he found just on scar in one of the outer races... less than 5mm in diameter.
Fixed.
Yeah I've had wheel bearing failure without any sign of free play - most likely ball pitting as some have mentioned. Pinpointing the specific one can often be helped by having someone in the back moving around - sitting on one side or the other can make all the difference. Similarly listening out on tight bends as the car rolls can help. Whilst both sides can go I have usually found it more likely to be the left side, presumably due to it taking a high overall load over its lifetime due to more right-hand turns thanks to roundabouts.
Given the state of that disc though I'd be tempted not to think about the possibilities too much until it is replaced (and pins freed up which there's every chance being the case. particularly if the inner surface is fine).
Given the state of that disc though I'd be tempted not to think about the possibilities too much until it is replaced (and pins freed up which there's every chance being the case. particularly if the inner surface is fine).
I've also dealt with a front wheel bearing which was a nightmare to diagnose.
...and I've also had a similarly elusively difficult to diagnose inner CV joint that more 'thumped' instead of 'roared/whined' which a wheel bearing does.
...and I've also had an intermediate driveshaft bearing go (MK1 Focus, Mondeo might be similar). The carrier for this bearing bolts onto the back of the engine block.
Those brakes though, look like they need some TLC (cleaning the sliding surfaces) and hoping the caliper shown is not on its way to seizing.
Shedding, such a lovely sport
...and I've also had a similarly elusively difficult to diagnose inner CV joint that more 'thumped' instead of 'roared/whined' which a wheel bearing does.
...and I've also had an intermediate driveshaft bearing go (MK1 Focus, Mondeo might be similar). The carrier for this bearing bolts onto the back of the engine block.
Those brakes though, look like they need some TLC (cleaning the sliding surfaces) and hoping the caliper shown is not on its way to seizing.
Shedding, such a lovely sport
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