EV Charger Bypassed Elec Meter - thoughts welcome
Discussion
Very quickly... neighbour recently (less than 2 weeks ago) bought/leased new BMW EV saloon of some sort and used a BMW recommended installer to add the charge point at his house.
Utility people arrived yesterday to check a long-standing problem with his gas and during their checks asked who had installed the charger, as it was a bodge and was bypassing the meter. They reported it.
Today, the utility squad have turned up wearing body-cams etc to investigate further as it technically constitutes fraud.
Neighbour is understandably hugely annoyed at having to sort this out and has spoken to the installers who have apologised and will help rectify the problem. It's still a massive ball-ache of somebody else's doing that he's now caught up in.
What would the members of PH do in a similar situation?
Utility people arrived yesterday to check a long-standing problem with his gas and during their checks asked who had installed the charger, as it was a bodge and was bypassing the meter. They reported it.
Today, the utility squad have turned up wearing body-cams etc to investigate further as it technically constitutes fraud.
Neighbour is understandably hugely annoyed at having to sort this out and has spoken to the installers who have apologised and will help rectify the problem. It's still a massive ball-ache of somebody else's doing that he's now caught up in.
What would the members of PH do in a similar situation?
Keep a detailed log.
Ensure the fitters accept responsibility.
Furnish the utilities company with all receipts, invoice, quote, etc. Ask them what the process is (there will be a formal process) and state that that they want to support the investigation, full transparency, etc.
Make an estimate of how many hours of charge were used.
Let them investigate.
Possibly expect an estimated bill for the fraudulent use.
Ensure the fitters accept responsibility.
Furnish the utilities company with all receipts, invoice, quote, etc. Ask them what the process is (there will be a formal process) and state that that they want to support the investigation, full transparency, etc.
Make an estimate of how many hours of charge were used.
Let them investigate.
Possibly expect an estimated bill for the fraudulent use.
DrBrule said:
Very quickly... neighbour recently (less than 2 weeks ago) bought/leased new BMW EV saloon of some sort and used a BMW recommended installer to add the charge point at his house.
Utility people arrived yesterday to check a long-standing problem with his gas and during their checks asked who had installed the charger, as it was a bodge and was bypassing the meter. They reported it.
Today, the utility squad have turned up wearing body-cams etc to investigate further as it technically constitutes fraud.
Neighbour is understandably hugely annoyed at having to sort this out and has spoken to the installers who have apologised and will help rectify the problem. It's still a massive ball-ache of somebody else's doing that he's now caught up in.
What would the members of PH do in a similar situation?
The electrician who fitted my Podpoint Solo broke the seals on the electricity supply connections to take a feed direct from the output side of the meter. He left a note saying why so the Company wouldn't blame me. Utility people arrived yesterday to check a long-standing problem with his gas and during their checks asked who had installed the charger, as it was a bodge and was bypassing the meter. They reported it.
Today, the utility squad have turned up wearing body-cams etc to investigate further as it technically constitutes fraud.
Neighbour is understandably hugely annoyed at having to sort this out and has spoken to the installers who have apologised and will help rectify the problem. It's still a massive ball-ache of somebody else's doing that he's now caught up in.
What would the members of PH do in a similar situation?
DrBrule said:
Today, the utility squad have turned up wearing body-cams etc to investigate further as it technically constitutes fraud.
It's not a fraud to steal electricity, but it is a specific offence pursuant to section 13 of the Theft Act 1961. It requires dishonesty on the part of the defendant in order for the offence to be made out properly, so your friend is probably in the clear.Still good advice to 'keep the receipts' and document as much as possible though
Edited by K4sper on Tuesday 18th April 12:08
Grumps. said:
Not sure what the issue is. The installer have said they will come and rectify it, therefore, unless other problems were discovered, nothing.
They have no contract with the utility company, the person who pays the bill does. So being proactive with the utility company and keeping a detailed record would be a sensible strategy.Just in case the installer vanishes / phoenixes the company / etc
DashDriver said:
I think they need to speak to a solicitor as no doubt the utility provider are going to take action if they are investigating.
They will weigh up the probable loss, if it was an oversight, etc - they won't automatically take action. I'm not sure the Theft act would apply anyway, "This offence is created by section 13 of the Theft Act 1968: A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted,"
There was no dishonesty on behalf of the bill payer?
vaud said:
They will weigh up the probable loss, if it was an oversight, etc - they won't automatically take action.
I'm not sure the Theft act would apply anyway, "This offence is created by section 13 of the Theft Act 1968: A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted,"
There was no dishonesty on behalf of the bill payer?
We don't know its all 3rd hand, the guy might have asked for this bypass and is now claiming innocent, people have been known to lie you know.I'm not sure the Theft act would apply anyway, "This offence is created by section 13 of the Theft Act 1968: A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted,"
There was no dishonesty on behalf of the bill payer?
It’s not fraud. Fraud requires dishonesty and intent and both are absent
Fraud:
(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and. (b)intends, by making the representation— (i)to make a gain for himself or another, or. (ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
But the OP will be responsible for paying to make things right and power used.
Fraud:
(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and. (b)intends, by making the representation— (i)to make a gain for himself or another, or. (ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
But the OP will be responsible for paying to make things right and power used.
It isn't fraud.
As already said, it's a s.13 Theft Act offence called 'abstracting electricity'.
The term abstracting is used because you can't physically steal electricity - 'he was seen running away with a bucket full of electricity' for example.
The OP's neighbour didn't realise that the charger had been incorrectly connected until a later inspection which rules out 'dishonestly' for their initial usage of the charger.
Once they were aware of this I would suggest that continued usage would be dishonest & they should stop using the charger & make arrangements with the electricity supplier to have the system properly installed.
As already said, it's a s.13 Theft Act offence called 'abstracting electricity'.
The term abstracting is used because you can't physically steal electricity - 'he was seen running away with a bucket full of electricity' for example.
The OP's neighbour didn't realise that the charger had been incorrectly connected until a later inspection which rules out 'dishonestly' for their initial usage of the charger.
Once they were aware of this I would suggest that continued usage would be dishonest & they should stop using the charger & make arrangements with the electricity supplier to have the system properly installed.
What these muppets forget when they start braking seals on fuses and meters, is the meter and everything before it (apart from the main cable as that grid) belongs to the energy supplier. Braking the seals causes no end of issues, normally starting with an estimated bill and sometimes a pre payment meter being fitted along with weekly checks for interference.
Fozziebear said:
What these muppets forget when they start braking seals on fuses and meters, is the meter and everything before it (apart from the main cable as that grid) belongs to the energy supplier. Braking the seals causes no end of issues, normally starting with an estimated bill and sometimes a pre payment meter being fitted along with weekly checks for interference.
The power companies know electricians break the seals on the main fuses and meters to do work. They couldn't cope if they had to turn up to ever house where there was work being done. As long as you can produce a test certificate there will be no issues.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff