Petrol station "drive off" fine?
Discussion
Just had the wife texting me about a fine shes got from some debt collection agency.
Seems she went to the local petrol station and put in £30 of fuel, then went into to pay and bought a lotto ticket at the same time. The attendant only charged her for the ticket not the fuel. She payed no attention, just tapped the card and off she went (with her receipt lucky enough)
Had a letter in the post saying she drove off without paying, she owes £30 for the fuel and a £30 admin fee. Not her fault but happy to pay for the fuel, but not the admin fee !
I've told her there must be an appeals process.
Anyway, I thought the petrol station called the police if you didn't pay.
Anyone else had experience of this ?
Seems she went to the local petrol station and put in £30 of fuel, then went into to pay and bought a lotto ticket at the same time. The attendant only charged her for the ticket not the fuel. She payed no attention, just tapped the card and off she went (with her receipt lucky enough)
Had a letter in the post saying she drove off without paying, she owes £30 for the fuel and a £30 admin fee. Not her fault but happy to pay for the fuel, but not the admin fee !
I've told her there must be an appeals process.
Anyway, I thought the petrol station called the police if you didn't pay.
Anyone else had experience of this ?
I haven't experienced it however there is a petrol station (BP) locally to me which has a notice on every pump from such a company which goes into all the details about by fuelling up you are entering into a contract with the filling station that you will pay for the fuel and if you fail to do so then the enforcement company will chase you for costs with an admin charge on top. I am paraphrasing but you will get the idea i'm sure.
I suspect it is because the Police have no time and resources to act as debt collectors for the petrol stations.
Your best course of action maybe to go back to the petrol station and speak to them directly to see if anything can be done, I highly doubt the company pursuing you will offer to drop the additional charge as that's where they make their money.
I suspect it is because the Police have no time and resources to act as debt collectors for the petrol stations.
Your best course of action maybe to go back to the petrol station and speak to them directly to see if anything can be done, I highly doubt the company pursuing you will offer to drop the additional charge as that's where they make their money.
k offUltimately the OPs wife did drive off without paying for fuel. It's costing the company money to chase payment so the admin fee is reasonable.
There's no way of proving whether the attendant forgot to add the fuel to the transaction, or the OPs wife forgot to give the pump number, as well as buying the lottery ticket. The OP's wife also had a second opportunity to make sure she'd paid the right amount by checking the number displayed on the card machine.
There's little point in trying to fight this, though you could pay entirely in 1 pence coins and then never use that petrol station again.....
There's no way of proving whether the attendant forgot to add the fuel to the transaction, or the OPs wife forgot to give the pump number, as well as buying the lottery ticket. The OP's wife also had a second opportunity to make sure she'd paid the right amount by checking the number displayed on the card machine.
There's little point in trying to fight this, though you could pay entirely in 1 pence coins and then never use that petrol station again.....
The person on the till must have seen your wife fuelling the car, as they had to 'switch on' the pump, so they knew she had put fuel in. The video will show her walking to the little hut to pay. If the till operater, knowing she had put fuel in, forgot to charge her, that's hardly her fault.
Jamescrs said:
I suspect it is because the Police have no time and resources to act as debt collectors for the petrol stations.
For a crime to be committed with a drive off the police need to demonstrate that there was an intention not to pay before you started to fill the car - once the filling station chooses to turn the pumps on and the fuel is in your car that fuel is yours and so there is no issue of theft.Proving that intent for a ‘one-off’ drive off is incredibly difficult, so the police tend to focus on repeated drive-offs by the same people..
PF62 said:
Jamescrs said:
I suspect it is because the Police have no time and resources to act as debt collectors for the petrol stations.
For a crime to be committed with a drive off the police need to demonstrate that there was an intention not to pay before you started to fill the car - once the filling station chooses to turn the pumps on and the fuel is in your car that fuel is yours and so there is no issue of theft.Super Sonic said:
The person on the till must have seen your wife fuelling the car, as they had to 'switch on' the pump, so they knew she had put fuel in. The video will show her walking to the little hut to pay. If the till operater, knowing she had put fuel in, forgot to charge her, that's hardly her fault.
With a busy forecourt, they probably approve pumps every other minute. That's why they usually ask 'any fuel?' I think it works both ways, really. I'm just ready to nominate my pump number as soon as I walk over, doesn't everybody? pcn1 said:
Just had the wife texting me about a fine shes got from some debt collection agency.
Seems she went to the local petrol station and put in £30 of fuel, then went into to pay and bought a lotto ticket at the same time. The attendant only charged her for the ticket not the fuel. She payed no attention, just tapped the card and off she went (with her receipt lucky enough)
Had a letter in the post saying she drove off without paying, she owes £30 for the fuel and a £30 admin fee. Not her fault but happy to pay for the fuel, but not the admin fee !
I've told her there must be an appeals process.
Anyway, I thought the petrol station called the police if you didn't pay.
Anyone else had experience of this ?
Seems she went to the local petrol station and put in £30 of fuel, then went into to pay and bought a lotto ticket at the same time. The attendant only charged her for the ticket not the fuel. She payed no attention, just tapped the card and off she went (with her receipt lucky enough)
Had a letter in the post saying she drove off without paying, she owes £30 for the fuel and a £30 admin fee. Not her fault but happy to pay for the fuel, but not the admin fee !
I've told her there must be an appeals process.
Anyway, I thought the petrol station called the police if you didn't pay.
Anyone else had experience of this ?
SkodaIan said:
Ultimately the OPs wife did drive off without paying for fuel. It's costing the company money to chase payment so the admin fee is reasonable.
There's no way of proving whether the attendant forgot to add the fuel to the transaction, or the OPs wife forgot to give the pump number, as well as buying the lottery ticket. The OP's wife also had a second opportunity to make sure she'd paid the right amount by checking the number displayed on the card machine.
There's little point in trying to fight this, though you could pay entirely in 1 pence coins and then never use that petrol station again.....
I agree with Skodalan.There's no way of proving whether the attendant forgot to add the fuel to the transaction, or the OPs wife forgot to give the pump number, as well as buying the lottery ticket. The OP's wife also had a second opportunity to make sure she'd paid the right amount by checking the number displayed on the card machine.
There's little point in trying to fight this, though you could pay entirely in 1 pence coins and then never use that petrol station again.....
Of course if you wish to double down on your sense of outrage, argue the point a bit longer and ask them to call the Police, so your wife can have a nice criminal record to go with your warped sense of right and wrong.
Or, you can simply be thankful that your wife’s mistake only cost £30 and no Police were called.
Hammersia said:
PF62 said:
Jamescrs said:
I suspect it is because the Police have no time and resources to act as debt collectors for the petrol stations.
For a crime to be committed with a drive off the police need to demonstrate that there was an intention not to pay before you started to fill the car - once the filling station chooses to turn the pumps on and the fuel is in your car that fuel is yours and so there is no issue of theft.Once the fuel is in your tank it’s yours because it isn’t distinguishable from the fuel that was already in your tank and those exact molecules of fuel that belonged to the filling station cannot be returned, the same as the food that was on the plate and is now in your stomach cannot be returned.
So driving off with the fuel without paying because you forgot to pay isn’t a crime, but a civil matter because you obviously owe the filling station for the fuel.
And so for the police to try and work out whether you drove up never intending to pay or drove off forgetting to pay is virtually impossible.
Tommo87 said:
Or, you can simply be thankful that your wife’s mistake only cost £30 and no Police were called.
The scammers charging these admin fees exist because the police won’t turn up even if the filling station called them.Edited by PF62 on Monday 24th April 15:01
Jimmy No Hands said:
With a busy forecourt, they probably approve pumps every other minute. That's why they usually ask 'any fuel?' I think it works both ways, really. I'm just ready to nominate my pump number as soon as I walk over, doesn't everybody?
Yes, whenever I buy something at a petrol station and don't say a pump number, I'm always asked 'Any fuel'. The till operater apparently didn't on this occasion, so down to them. I think it would be impossible to show that the op's wife deliberately intended to avoid paying.PF62 said:
The scammers charging these admin fees exist because the police won’t turn up even if the filling station called them.
Scammer : "someone who makes money using illegal methods, especially by tricking people".In what respect is the request for payment illegal, how was the culprit tricked ?
Penny Whistle said:
PF62 said:
The scammers charging these admin fees exist because the police won’t turn up even if the filling station called them.
Scammer : "someone who makes money using illegal methods, especially by tricking people".In what respect is the request for payment illegal, how was the culprit tricked ?
My definition is someone who demands a made up amount of money as an ‘admin fee’ with threats for non-payment, particularly when a significant part of the error was made by the employee of the company engaging the scammers.
PF62 said:
Penny Whistle said:
PF62 said:
The scammers charging these admin fees exist because the police won’t turn up even if the filling station called them.
Scammer : "someone who makes money using illegal methods, especially by tricking people".In what respect is the request for payment illegal, how was the culprit tricked ?
My definition is someone who demands a made up amount of money as an ‘admin fee’ with threats for non-payment, particularly when a significant part of the error was made by the employee of the company engaging the scammers.
DCA pays the site operator a percentage of the amount for their unpaid fuel transactions, because the site operator has no access to DVLA database and the police won't put down their doughnuts to investigate low-level crimes like this. It's the only way the site operator has of recovering some of their losses. DCA obviously then has to recover what they paid to the site operator for the debt, plus a profit on top of that, to cover their cumulative losses from all the people who get the DCA letter and chuck it in the nearest bin because their credit file is already in tatters with CCJs and don't care.
I doubt the site operator will care when you go back with your £30 to pay. They will just point you at the DCAs contact details.
One might make the observation that if your wife has so much money to not need to bother checking the amount on the screen before casually "waving" her card at it, then another £30 isn't going to make any difference.
I doubt the site operator will care when you go back with your £30 to pay. They will just point you at the DCAs contact details.
One might make the observation that if your wife has so much money to not need to bother checking the amount on the screen before casually "waving" her card at it, then another £30 isn't going to make any difference.
Seems like the mistake was your wife's or at least it is clear she made a mistake. if she had realised and gone back later then the admin fee would likely be waived, as it is, she has committed an offence, albeit "unknowingly".
You say "luckily she still has the receipt", but all that proves is that she drove off without paying!
The £30 fee sounds reasonable enough, too, DVLA search, writing a letter, answering phone calls from irate wives, etc.
Pay up and be more careful in future. If she'd have not paid attention and not been pulled up on it and got £30 of free fuel, , you'd not be posting on here about how hard done by she was.
You say "luckily she still has the receipt", but all that proves is that she drove off without paying!
The £30 fee sounds reasonable enough, too, DVLA search, writing a letter, answering phone calls from irate wives, etc.
Pay up and be more careful in future. If she'd have not paid attention and not been pulled up on it and got £30 of free fuel, , you'd not be posting on here about how hard done by she was.
r3g said:
to cover their cumulative losses from all the people who get the DCA letter and chuck it in the nearest bin because their credit file is already in tatters with CCJs and don't care
Unless they do go through to actually seeking a CCJ debt on the admin fee, then paying the filling station what is owed for the fuel and throwing the speculative invoice for the admin fee in the bin won’t make any difference to their credit file.So do they proceed to getting CCJs for the admin fees? And obviously they would need to identify the person who owes the admin fee because the registered keeper might not have been the person filling the car.
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