Sad starter motor?
Discussion
All,
Technical question - help required please.
Had been driving car - no problems. Got home, went out later, jumped in my V8S, alarm off, key in, usual whirr of fuel pump - turn over and just 'THUNK'.
Battery is about 2 - 21/2 years old, biggest bu@@er I could get to fit in tray and a 'Varta' so reputable make.
Lights are feeble, no central locking, no horn, hazard lights make indicator relay just buzz! Electrics are very flat!
I'm assuming starter and/or solenoid have gone short circuit...which is pulling all the juice out of the battery.
I intend checking battery earth, main lead to starter, (once I get boot to open - help!!) and then having the starter motor off.
Please - any input to above would be good....if I don't get back immediately, it's because I'm on my back under an S!!
Nick
Technical question - help required please.
Had been driving car - no problems. Got home, went out later, jumped in my V8S, alarm off, key in, usual whirr of fuel pump - turn over and just 'THUNK'.
Battery is about 2 - 21/2 years old, biggest bu@@er I could get to fit in tray and a 'Varta' so reputable make.
Lights are feeble, no central locking, no horn, hazard lights make indicator relay just buzz! Electrics are very flat!
I'm assuming starter and/or solenoid have gone short circuit...which is pulling all the juice out of the battery.
I intend checking battery earth, main lead to starter, (once I get boot to open - help!!) and then having the starter motor off.
Please - any input to above would be good....if I don't get back immediately, it's because I'm on my back under an S!!
Nick
If it is a flat battery and you have another vehicle available, connect jump leads to main battery cable on starter and any reasonable earth you can find. This should bring your electrics back enough to get into boot etc as that seems to be your first hurdle.. never know it might even start like that too. If it does then you know you either got a bad connection somewhere or a flat battery 
.
Hope that helps a bit,
Carl.
. Hope that helps a bit,
Carl.
Try jump starting the car - that should get you in to the boot as previously stated.
Either you have a short circuit - which would produce lots of heat and a possibly exploded battery or more likely some low resistance root that is discharging it (and will be a bit of
to find.
Or - the alternator has packed up and is not charging it in the first place (in which case the battery light will stay on - even if you rev the engine).
Good Luck - Let us know what you find,
WG
Either you have a short circuit - which would produce lots of heat and a possibly exploded battery or more likely some low resistance root that is discharging it (and will be a bit of
to find. Or - the alternator has packed up and is not charging it in the first place (in which case the battery light will stay on - even if you rev the engine).
Good Luck - Let us know what you find,
WG
OK, Guys,
Haven't been able to check anything yet, other than putting a charger on to the alternator (brown) lead and Earth on the plenum - as recommended in 'the Bible'.
Having it on charge like this for about 5 hours has still not given me enough to open the boot. It's definitely charging as I've had a meter on the charger leads(+14V).
I would have thought that would have been enough to release the boot solenoid at least - -but effectively there has been no change. This is why I'm leaning to a starter problem. OK I haven't felt the starter or solenoid for heat - but the sudden change from having power to nothing before/after turning the key is leading me that way.
I will try the jump lead method suggested during lunch time today.
Thanks for the suggestions so far guys
Nick.
Haven't been able to check anything yet, other than putting a charger on to the alternator (brown) lead and Earth on the plenum - as recommended in 'the Bible'.
Having it on charge like this for about 5 hours has still not given me enough to open the boot. It's definitely charging as I've had a meter on the charger leads(+14V).
I would have thought that would have been enough to release the boot solenoid at least - -but effectively there has been no change. This is why I'm leaning to a starter problem. OK I haven't felt the starter or solenoid for heat - but the sudden change from having power to nothing before/after turning the key is leading me that way.
I will try the jump lead method suggested during lunch time today.
Thanks for the suggestions so far guys
Nick.
I had a battery die fairly instantly on me once in the Chimaera and despite connecting a fully charged battery in parallel to it with a set of jump leads, the car was still suggesting it had no power. Ony when I disconnected the old battery from the car and clipped my jumpleads just to the loom battery clamps did the car come to life. It was suggested to me that a short-circuit had developed within my old battery !?
Cheers
Matt
Cheers
Matt
If you connect qood quality jump leads as you suggest (live to big brown alternator terminal, earth to earth) from another running car, then you MUST have enough power in the rest of the car's circuitry. - you have connected a new battery in parallel, it HAS TO work.
Even if your own old battery isn't holding a charge, it's effectively bypassed by those jump leads.
As somebody else said, if there is a short in the old battery, it would spark like mad when you connected the jump leads - a wee spark is ok, more than one is not.
If it still doesn't work, then it suggests a problem elsewhere in the car's electrics - either a bad main earth, or a duff live link or fuse in the main car feed, or a short on the starter / solenoid as you said originally, or something like that.
>> Edited by tvrgit on Friday 26th August 12:25
Even if your own old battery isn't holding a charge, it's effectively bypassed by those jump leads.
As somebody else said, if there is a short in the old battery, it would spark like mad when you connected the jump leads - a wee spark is ok, more than one is not.
If it still doesn't work, then it suggests a problem elsewhere in the car's electrics - either a bad main earth, or a duff live link or fuse in the main car feed, or a short on the starter / solenoid as you said originally, or something like that.
>> Edited by tvrgit on Friday 26th August 12:25
Hoo-bl***y-rah!
Gents - you were right! Why did I doubt the collective wisdom that is PistonHeads?!
Just for the record, tried the jump leads, let the donor car rev for a few minutes - got enough electrickery to open the boot! Promising thought I!
Then went for an engine start, slowly the engine turned over - then BARK we're away!
Disconnected the jump leads - let the engine run to get something into the battery, then switched off. Tried a restart - nothing. Went down to my obliging motor factors who let me have a new battery, connected up and we're back in business!!
I really didn't think that a battery could fail so completely and so suddenly. It obviously did, think I remember reading about batteries developing an internal short circuit on these forums - maybe this is what happened.
Thanks again guys. Nick
Gents - you were right! Why did I doubt the collective wisdom that is PistonHeads?!
Just for the record, tried the jump leads, let the donor car rev for a few minutes - got enough electrickery to open the boot! Promising thought I!
Then went for an engine start, slowly the engine turned over - then BARK we're away!
Disconnected the jump leads - let the engine run to get something into the battery, then switched off. Tried a restart - nothing. Went down to my obliging motor factors who let me have a new battery, connected up and we're back in business!!
I really didn't think that a battery could fail so completely and so suddenly. It obviously did, think I remember reading about batteries developing an internal short circuit on these forums - maybe this is what happened.
Thanks again guys. Nick
When lead-acid batteries discharge, the internal plates physically move (as lead is electrolytically removed from one plate and deposited on another. When they are deeply discharged the plates can form fingers that bridge the gap between adjacent plates and form an internal short circuit. These wipe out that cell and prevent it recharging. I've seen this happen to one or two cells at a time but never seen the whole battery go at once. Sometimes you can burn these shorts out by sticking a huge current through the battery and the cell will come back - connecting a good fully charged battery in parallel with the flat one does the job nicely. A normal battery charger doesn't put out nearly enough current to do this on its own, so sometimes a battery that won't take charge from a trickle charger will come back if you give it a 'jolt' from a good battery first. It doesn't always work though, sometimes you just have to chuck the battery away.
I've only ever seen problems like this on flat (or nearly flat) batteries so this whole problem may have been provoked by a separate fault causing the battery to go flat. Perhaps you've got a current leak somewhere, or the alternator isn't charging properly.
I've seen a V8 Landy that wore through the main power cable so that it shorted against the block. It didn't catch fire, but did run the battery flat within a few minutes more or less at random. Perhaps there's something similar going on here?
I've only ever seen problems like this on flat (or nearly flat) batteries so this whole problem may have been provoked by a separate fault causing the battery to go flat. Perhaps you've got a current leak somewhere, or the alternator isn't charging properly.
I've seen a V8 Landy that wore through the main power cable so that it shorted against the block. It didn't catch fire, but did run the battery flat within a few minutes more or less at random. Perhaps there's something similar going on here?
Hope you tested that battery!
I had similar symptoms with my company Toyota Avensys. No more than a loose terminal.
Was so annoyed, I overtightened the (10 mm, who would expect that!) battery terminal clamp bolt. Clamp stretched about 10 rattles long without giving more resistance, but it held.
mvg Boudewijn
I had similar symptoms with my company Toyota Avensys. No more than a loose terminal.
Was so annoyed, I overtightened the (10 mm, who would expect that!) battery terminal clamp bolt. Clamp stretched about 10 rattles long without giving more resistance, but it held.
mvg Boudewijn
All
- Thought I'd have the last word!
Does look like it was the battery.
The new one was in over the week-end. We were away in the tin-top, so didn't get to drive the S until yesterday.
She fired up first pop!! I did change the battery terminal clamps and tidied-up some of the wiring in the boot yesterday.
Haven't been underneath the car yet, but I will just check the feed to the starter - probably Saturday - before I'm completely happy.
- Thought I'd have the last word!
Does look like it was the battery.
The new one was in over the week-end. We were away in the tin-top, so didn't get to drive the S until yesterday.
She fired up first pop!! I did change the battery terminal clamps and tidied-up some of the wiring in the boot yesterday.
Haven't been underneath the car yet, but I will just check the feed to the starter - probably Saturday - before I'm completely happy.
Alan,
OK - but I've never seen a battery go like this.
Remember, I did try to recharge it for about 5 hours last Tuesday week and there just wasn't a peep.
There - I have had the last one!
PS - Any of the Northants crew going to Snetterton? I know Jeremy is teaming up with Dom & Jamie from Power.
I'm really mixed.
Nick
OK - but I've never seen a battery go like this.
Remember, I did try to recharge it for about 5 hours last Tuesday week and there just wasn't a peep.
There - I have had the last one!
PS - Any of the Northants crew going to Snetterton? I know Jeremy is teaming up with Dom & Jamie from Power.
I'm really mixed.
Nick
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