National speed limit confusion

[sergeantstingray]

Hi all,
The issue of speed limits and their associated signs might seem a simple one, but having recently been issued a speeding ticket, I've become somewhat keen to make sure my understanding is 100% accurate! I have some confusion over the use of the national speed limit sign (black stripe on a white background) and how this potential conflicts with other guidance. I'll do my best to explain...

Is a the black strip sign is displayed, the national speed limit applies. This is 60mph on a single carriageway and 70 on a dual-carriageway. Simple

However, the national speed limit is 30mph in a built up area, and a built up area is defined by the presence of lampposts. So if a dual-carriageway displays the NSL sign AND there are lampposts, is the limit 30mph or 70mph?

Also, if I'm driving along a dual-carriageway at 70mph, then a set of streetlights appear as I approach an exit slip-road, do I need to slow down to 30mph?

Common sense would say the answers to my two questions are 70 and no, but if we follow exact wording of the highway code, it's not so clear! Any thoughts?

Thanks

[Nomme de Plum]

If i recall correctly the 30mph applied if the lights were spaced at no more than 25m.

I should add that the sign should take precedence.

Lots of dual carriageways are lit but still legal at 70mph.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Tuesday 9th May 13:45

[greysquirrel]

As above, I’m sure it’s the spacing of the lights. Also the lights are not the determining factor but ‘in the absence of a speed marking to the contrary, the limit is 30 because of lights’.

[SuperNads]

I may be wrong but I don't believe the 30mph limit is ever enforced with a NSL sign. 30mphs are usually signed with a red circle and a 30. It's more that if there isn't a sign and there are lampposts at regular intervals, the limit is 30mph and this is typically in a 'built-up area'.

[sergeantstingray]

Seems like the definition of "built up" now means street lights not more than 183m apart.

[Nomme de Plum]

SuperNads said:

I may be wrong but I don't believe the 30mph limit is ever enforced with a NSL sign. 30mphs are usually signed with a red circle and a 30. It's more that if there isn't a sign and there are lampposts at regular intervals, the limit is 30mph and this is typically in a 'built-up area'.

Yep. That is how i understand it too.

[ChocolateFrog]

So we're you doing 60 or 70 in a 30?

[Nomme de Plum]

sergeantstingray said:

Seems like the definition of "built up" now means street lights not more than 183m apart.

Really Where is that? Is it in the HC?

Edit you are correct. It is 200 yards.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Tuesday 9th May 13:51

[sergeantstingray]

ChocolateFrog said:

So we're you doing 60 or 70 in a 30?

No, 38 in a 30. My fault entirely. Didn't start slowing down soon enough when entering a town from the main bypass.

[worsy]

sergeantstingray said:

Hi all,
The issue of speed limits and their associated signs might seem a simple one, but having recently been issued a speeding ticket, I've become somewhat keen to make sure my understanding is 100% accurate! I have some confusion over the use of the national speed limit sign (black stripe on a white background) and how this potential conflicts with other guidance. I'll do my best to explain...

Is a the black strip sign is displayed, the national speed limit applies. This is 60mph on a single carriageway and 70 on a dual-carriageway. Simple

However, the national speed limit is 30mph in a built up area, and a built up area is defined by the presence of lampposts. So if a dual-carriageway displays the NSL sign AND there are lampposts, is the limit 30mph or 70mph?

Also, if I'm driving along a dual-carriageway at 70mph, then a set of streetlights appear as I approach an exit slip-road, do I need to slow down to 30mph?

Common sense would say the answers to my two questions are 70 and no, but if we follow exact wording of the highway code, it's not so clear! Any thoughts?

Thanks

I don't ever recall seeing an NSL sign which would then be anything other than 60/70 (or 50 depending on vehicle type). If 30 i would expect, signage indicating that is the case.

reading between the lines, have you been caught in a 30 with NSL signage?

[sergeantstingray]

So in this scenario, would you hit the brakes and reduce to 30mph at this point?

[essayer]

IMO..

the NSL is always the same 60/70 for cars

areas with lampposts have a 30 mph limit unless signposted otherwise

[David87]

I've never really understood the point of the national speed limit sign anyway. Why not just have signs that say 60 or 70?!

[Nomme de Plum]

sergeantstingray said:

So in this scenario, would you hit the brakes and reduce to 30mph at this point?

Doesn't look like a slip road but a normal multi carriageway.

[Nomme de Plum]

David87 said:

I've never really understood the point of the national speed limit sign anyway. Why not just have signs that say 60 or 70?!

I assume the NSL could be changed by legislation without changing a load of signs.

[Mammasaid]

David87 said:

I've never really understood the point of the national speed limit sign anyway. Why not just have signs that say 60 or 70?!

Because for some vehicles the NSL isn't 60/70 it's 50/60.

OP have you got a Google maps link so that we can look for ourselves?

[sergeantstingray]

Nomme de Plum said:

Doesn't look like a slip road but a normal multi carriageway.

Indeed it is. The photo doesn't show it, but it's devoid of streetlights until this point. As you enter the streetlit area, should you slow down to 30?

[snotrag]

NSL is always, and only, 30mph in a built up area, and 60/70 Single/Dual Carriageway ouytside a built up area.

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

In these cases you will see the black/white sign for 60/70m and for a built up area no further signage is required - if its built up, its 30mph unless signed otherwise (although there usually IS a 30mph sign, but not always).


I believe the correct terrninology then for the various 20/30/40/50 limits we also have nowadays is a 'Restricted Speed Limit', or 'Locally set speed limits' and these will always be marked at their start, and with with repeaters.

Edited by snotrag on Tuesday 9th May 14:04

[David87]

Mammasaid said:

Because for some vehicles the NSL isn't 60/70 it's 50/60.

OP have you got a Google maps link so that we can look for ourselves?

Good point. So what about where there are 60 and 70 signs as I'm sure I've seen them in Scotland? Do they apply to all vehicles?

[sosidge]

sergeantstingray said:

So in this scenario, would you hit the brakes and reduce to 30mph at this point?

I'm sure that at some point before this image there is a 30 sign in a red circle.