Batteries CCA - Cheap v Expensive

[KTMsm]

I have a general understanding of batteries and buy a lot of them, mostly for motorcycles

I always buy AGM and look at the AH and CCA ratings

As bike batteries mostly die due to being left for months on end it seems pointless buying the most expensive as they seem just as susceptible

Currently I have an issue with a 1000cc twin which will only start when the (new) battery is fully charged 13v+

I bought the Numax as it had one of the highest rating at 210CCA

https://www.tayna.co.uk/motorcycle-batteries/types...


I have a cheap load tester it's the lightweight digital type but generally it seems to be accurate, according to it there's nothing wrong with the battery and it's reading at least the claimed 210 CCA


I've checked the bike over and can't find a fault - it starts within one or two cranks but after 10 starts the voltage drops to 7.6V and it's effectively flat - showing 180CCA

I'm happy to try a "better" battery but I'm loathe to pay more for a "known brand" if it has a lower / similar CCA

Or is CCA being exaggerated / distorted with the cheaper brands ?

Edited by KTMsm on Saturday 13th May 12:30

[Belle427]

I'd say it's a problem with the bike somewhere if the battery is new and charged correctly.
Have you made sure all the connections are as they should be battery, starter etc.
I'd still use a battery conditioner/maintainer personally on anything mostly laid up in the garage.

[darkyoung1000]

Depending on the age of the bike and whether it’s been sat around for a bit, it could be something like a sticking starter motor that is proving too much for the battery.

I have just got my 1000cc v-twin back on the road after an 18 month lay up (fork seal problems). It had a new battery, but would only start with a jump pack - otherwise, there was a click and a crank position sensor error code….

A few instances of running it forwards in 2nd gear and dropping the clutch made it start on the button. Regular use has now seen the problem go away.

This may be in no way helpful of course if your bike hasn’t been laid up! Good luck.

[donkmeister]

KTMsm said:

I always buy AGM and look at the AH and CCA ratings

Edited by KTMsm on Saturday 13th May 12:30

Firstly, is your bike charging system designed for AGM? The alternator in AGM-equipped cars puts out a higher voltage as that is what AGM batteries need.

I doubt that would cause the issues seen but it would save you some money if your bike isn't designed for AGM!!!

What i suspect you are finding is deep discharge causing sulphation and acid stratification. This means the battery will show a decent voltage across the terminals when charged, but really isn't storing much charge. I've had good results with the battery repair mode on a NoCo genius 10 charger, restores the batteries by pulsing a relatively high voltage through the terminals. So, battery needs to be disconnected to do this.

ETA sorry missed the bit about the bike discharging the battery so quickly... That would also need to be resolved but the stuff above still stands.

Edited by donkmeister on Tuesday 16th May 12:59

[KTMsm]

Thanks all I probably muddied the water by mentioning my bike issue

Essentially I'd like to know what's the difference between a

Numax 10ah 210CCA battery at £30 and a
Yuasa 10ah 215CCA battery at £60

Surely it's not just 5CCA ?

In many cases the cheaper batteries have higher Ah / CCA

[Belle427]

You may find those figures nonsense if tested though.
In my experience I've always gone branded ie Bosch or Varta as you know your getting something decent.
Can't comment on yuasa stuff really, it's supposed to be good though.
Funny enough I work opposite their factory!

[E-bmw]

As with (pretty much) anything you get what you pay for, go with the Yuasa.

[KTMsm]

My experience is the opposite - many known brands rely on their old reputation and are overpriced IMO

IE BMW, Mercedes, VW - they are no better made and have some well known, expensive problems in various models

Hence the question - what is the difference ?

[pcn1]

In general, from years of owning cars and bikes.... cheap batteries from the budget end of the market don't last as long as decent branded item.
We can only assume its quality of manufacture, quality control and after sales support etc.
Even topics like environmental standards in their factory's and the wages they pay the staff have an impact on price with any business.

Do you get cheap bargains that punch above their weight ? Sure sometimes. But mostly, buy cheap buy twice.

I've just replaced the Yuasa on my bike after 8 years service. It was still starting the bike, but I figured I'm living on borrowed time !

End of the day, your money your choice

[E-bmw]

KTMsm said:

My experience is the opposite - many known brands rely on their old reputation and are overpriced IMO

IE BMW, Mercedes, VW - they are no better made and have some well known, expensive problems in various models

Hence the question - what is the difference ?

I already told you.

The Yuasa is better quality & will last longer, you get what you pay for, like I said.

[KTMsm]

E-bmw said:

I already told you.

The Yuasa is better quality & will last longer, you get what you pay for, like I said.

Based on what evidence ?

It would have to last twice as long to be as good value in this case

I recall an advert for Bosch drill bits, they claimed to last 30% longer than the competition

but they were twice as expensive !

[GreenV8S]

KTMsm said:

Based on what evidence ?

The brands with a good reputation tend to have earned that reputation. Brands without a good reputation haven't.

[KTMsm]

Jesus Christ - doesn't anyone buy anything based on information anymore ?

I ask a perfectly reasonable question about what the difference is and people tell me the known brands are clearly better - because they are and worth twice as much - because they are

Although they have no evidence whatsoever to demonstrate this "fact"

IE the named brands use thicker plates which is demonstrated by their heavier weight, which enables them to do 150 charging cycles more than the cheaper counterparts

[Frankthered]

The problem with batteries that they don't need to be replaced all that often, so we don't really get enough personal experience to say brand A is better or worse than brand B. Certainly, if I had bought a cheapo (or indeed expensive) battery and it had failed after six months, I would tell you and suggest you avoid that particular brand.

I don't know enough about battery construction to tell you what the difference is, but I would suggest that the length of guarantee being offered by the manufacturer is a good indicator of the quality.

I recently had to replace the battery on my 2016 Yaris as it stopped holding charge. It was a Varta and (I assume) was the original item when the car was new. I looked at various brands - in particular Lion as they are available at ECP. IIRC Lion offers a three year warranty and one review I read suggested that they are the only budget brand that they would recommend. The criticism of the cheaper brands is that they lose their performance more quickly and the Lion batteries held up better than the other budgets.

I ended up buying a Bosch with a 4 year warranty as Costco were selling them for about the same price as the Lion from ECP.

YMMV

[GreenV8S]

KTMsm said:

IE the named brands use thicker plates which is demonstrated by their heavier weight, which enables them to do 150 charging cycles more than the cheaper counterparts

Now you're being silly.

How or why would a consumer ever know that?

Brands which have a good reputation for reliability will have earned that by generally being more reliable ie working better for longer.

That doesn't mean that every battery from a well-known brand is better than every battery from an unknown brand, but it means the manufacturer has a stronger incentive to maintain quality since they need to protect the reputation of their brand.

[Dave.]

I did a bit of googling (yes, I know) and it was started that CCA are often estimated by the manufacturers, and there are two standard tests to determine CCA. (Different temperatures, durations, voltages.)

I'd hazard a guess that the cheaper ones are "more creative" with there decimal places to favour the desired results.

[pcn1]

KTMsm said:

Jesus Christ - doesn't anyone buy anything based on information anymore ?

I ask a perfectly reasonable question about what the difference is and people tell me the known brands are clearly better - because they are and worth twice as much - because they are

Although they have no evidence whatsoever to demonstrate this "fact"

IE the named brands use thicker plates which is demonstrated by their heavier weight, which enables them to do 150 charging cycles more than the cheaper counterparts

If you really want to get technical, , I think your on the wrong forum.
You'd need to find some geeky engineers forum where they work in this industry

[AW111]

Warranty can be a good indicator of quality.

I recently paid more for a battery with a 36 month warranty (the cheaper one was 24 month).

[KTMsm]

GreenV8S said:

Now you're being silly.

How or why would a consumer ever know that?

Brands which have a good reputation for reliability will have earned that by generally being more reliable ie working better for longer.

That doesn't mean that every battery from a well-known brand is better than every battery from an unknown brand, but it means the manufacturer has a stronger incentive to maintain quality since they need to protect the reputation of their brand.

PH draws from a wide pool and rarely lets me down

[KTMsm]

AW111 said:

Warranty can be a good indicator of quality.

I recently paid more for a battery with a 36 month warranty (the cheaper one was 24 month).

I think that's how many of us think - many of the cheaper ones have a 2 yr warranty over the known brand, one year

Of course exactly what is covered and how you claim...

I've been back to the supplier, they swear they're usually good and have sent me another - despite my preference to pay more and upgrade

The new one's worse !