Need a ULEZ 640d-beater - help please

[E63eeeeee...]

Yesterday, in an unlikely turn of events that involved PH providing an actual public service, I discovered that my monthly Glasgow trip is going to become very inconvenient from next month, as my 640d is not LEZ compliant, and all the logistical alternatives look really irritating. I can suck up the first 30 quid fine so I've maybe got until the end of June to find an alternative, so what should I be looking to test drive?

Requirements are - comfortable for regular 250+ miles of mostly motorway and A roads for a generously proportioned 6'3" person; not slower on the motorway than a 640d, so ideally 350 bhp/lbft; not horribly inefficient, so 35ish mpg target; less than 20k but 15 would be much better. Smaller cars also better, it's always seemed inelegant to need a 4.8m long 1800kg car to move 100kg of me and 10kg of luggage and there's a lot of tight car parks where I go.

The current shortlist:
Euro 6 640d - obviously ticks all the boxes, but at the more expensive end, target for future diesel restrictions and likely to depreciate as a result, plus it's hard to find one with all the options my current one has and bloody difficult to manage in tight car parks without them.

Merc A45 AMG- the 360 bhp versions are mostly what comes up if you put that spec into Autotrader and they're pretty subtle if you get one without the wing, but I suspect not that refined for a long journey.

VW Scirocco R 280 - hard to objectively justify, so mostly because I just want one. At the higher end of the price range, but will probably hold value better than the alternatives given the rarity and the fact it's not been replaced by a better version. Maybe a bit underpowered but only 1400kg and could look at a map to get it into the 300s.

E400 - bit meh, and just as big as the 640d. Also boring colours.

Ruled out:
TTS - I don't fit
1 series - OH has one, bit too his'n'hers

It may not look like it, but I am open to non-German cars.

Any suggestions for the list, or thoughts about what's on it much appreciated.

[ZX10R NIN]

3.0TT Infiniti Q50 S:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304196...

Or the Hybrid 35h S: & you'll get a good one bang on 15k:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304256...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303235...

[OutInTheShed]

30 quid a month in ULEZ fees is £360 a year.
That's just a rounding error in depreciation and car buying?

[joshcowin]

OutInTheShed said:

30 quid a month in ULEZ fees is £360 a year.
That's just a rounding error in depreciation and car buying?

This!

I always laugh when people say I would buy that car but the road tax is too high, they are looking at buying £40k + cars and they will get them serviced at main dealers!!

[samoht]

OutInTheShed said:

30 quid a month in ULEZ fees is £360 a year.
That's just a rounding error in depreciation and car buying?

Sadly not that simple

Glasgow City Council said:

A scheme surcharge however means that the penalty charge amount will double with each subsequent breach of the rules by the same vehicle detected in the same LEZ... Penalty charge rates are capped at £480 for cars

https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=23...

[Terzo123]

joshcowin said:

OutInTheShed said:

30 quid a month in ULEZ fees is £360 a year.
That's just a rounding error in depreciation and car buying?

This!

I always laugh when people say I would buy that car but the road tax is too high, they are looking at buying £40k + cars and they will get them serviced at main dealers!!

It's not just 30 quid for each transgression though.

Copied from the Council page

You cannot pay to enter a LEZ.

From 1 June 2023, if a non-compliant vehicle is detected in Glasgow's LEZ, a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) will be issued to the registered keeper of that vehicle.

A maximum of one PCN will be issued to the vehicle's registered keeper for breaching LEZ rules in any one day.

Set at national level by the Scottish Government for consistency across cities, the initial penalty charge for all non-compliant vehicles entering a LEZ in Scotland will be £60.

A scheme surcharge however means that the penalty charge amount will double with each subsequent breach of the rules by the same vehicle detected in the same LEZ.

Surcharging will only start however after the first PCN (issued at the initial base tier of £60) can be expected to have been received by the vehicle's registered keeper.

Penalty charge rates are capped at £480 for cars and light goods vehicles, and £960 for buses and HGVs. Any further breaches of LEZ rules by the same vehicle detected in the same LEZ once this cap is reached will result in future PCNs issued at the capped penalty charge rate.

Where there are no further breaches of the rules detected within the 90 days following a previous violation, the penalty rate will be reset to the base tier charge of £60.

All PCNs will be reduced by 50% if paid within 14 days.

All revenue (above that incurred in running the LEZ scheme itself) can only be used for activities that help reduce air pollution and/or contribute toward achieving our climate change targets.

[E63eeeeee...]

OutInTheShed said:

30 quid a month in ULEZ fees is £360 a year.
That's just a rounding error in depreciation and car buying?

Yeah, if it worked like that I'd just suck it up, but it counts every day as a new infraction (I'm usually there at least one night) and doubles the fine every time it spots you.

It's really brutal as a scheme. I wouldn't mind parking or staying outside the zone and walking in but basically all the car parks and all the hotels are in the zone and I suspect that any smart ways round it will be quickly full of locals.

[E63eeeeee...]

ZX10R NIN said:

3.0TT Infiniti Q50 S:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304196...

Or the Hybrid 35h S: & you'll get a good one bang on 15k:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304256...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303235...

Thanks, I'd ruled out hybrids on the basis that they're not that helpful for high speed driving and the car will spend 95% of its life at national speed limit speeds, but those adverts suggest the hybrid bit will actually work at 70, so will see if I can find a Q50 to test.

[Gtom]

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305067...

Ironically enough, at a dealers in Glasgow.

Edit

I didn’t realise the engine was so lame.

Edited by Gtom on Sunday 14th May 16:52

[HelldogBE]

E63eeeeee... said:

The current shortlist:
Merc A45 AMG- the 360 bhp versions are mostly what comes up if you put that spec into Autotrader and they're pretty subtle if you get one without the wing, but I suspect not that refined for a long journey.
.

Any boosted 2.0 turbo might feel a bit lame when you're used to the diesel torque from a 3-litre TT engine.
I read the A45 is especially dull when not in full attack mode?! A golf R probably provides more comfort but I can see most of the performance being lost on the motorway?

Also the ride comfort of a short wheelbase car might be lacking. Why not go one size smaller and compromise with something like a 330d/340d or 440i?

[ChrisH79]

If you fancy a Scirocco why not a 3 door Leon?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304055...

[anonymous-user]

Terzo123 said:

It's not just 30 quid for each transgression though.

Copied from the Council page

You cannot pay to enter a LEZ.

From 1 June 2023, if a non-compliant vehicle is detected in Glasgow's LEZ, a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) will be issued to the registered keeper of that vehicle.

I thought this was like the London Ulez where you could just pay a charge each day. As others have said, that is Brutal I wonder how many people will be caught out by this.

[E63eeeeee...]

Gtom said:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305067...

Ironically enough, at a dealers in Glasgow.

Thanks, and it's a nice colour, but while I have the horrible feeling I'm exposing myself as a performance snob 8.4s to 60 is fundamentally not going to cut it. On the other weeks, the car needs to be able to cope with overtaking people on the A702 and I don't think 175 lbft is going to cut it.

[arfur]

E63eeeeee... said:

Thanks, and it's a nice colour, but while I have the horrible feeling I'm exposing myself as a performance snob 8.4s to 60 is fundamentally not going to cut it. On the other weeks, the car needs to be able to cope with overtaking people on the A702 and I don't think 175 lbft is going to cut it.

How about an X3M 35d ? Ulez/Lez compliant from 2015 and there are a few nice lowish mile ones on AT at around 20k (even with pan roofs)

I have one and it does shift - 310/460 and with the dynamic suspension handles pretty well .. oh and it weighs about 30kg less than your 640d ;-)

hth

[E63eeeeee...]

arfur said:

E63eeeeee... said:

Thanks, and it's a nice colour, but while I have the horrible feeling I'm exposing myself as a performance snob 8.4s to 60 is fundamentally not going to cut it. On the other weeks, the car needs to be able to cope with overtaking people on the A702 and I don't think 175 lbft is going to cut it.

How about an X3M 35d ? Ulez/Lez compliant from 2015 and there are a few nice lowish mile ones on AT at around 20k (even with pan roofs)

I have one and it does shift - 310/460 and with the dynamic suspension handles pretty well .. oh and it weighs about 30kg less than your 640d ;-)

hth

Ew, an SUV? I'm not quite that desperate yet.

The only time I've been in an X3 I remember it seemed tiny inside, but that might have been an early one. I secretly want an X6 but I don't think this is the right time to go up in the world.

[E63eeeeee...]

HelldogBE said:

E63eeeeee... said:

The current shortlist:
Merc A45 AMG- the 360 bhp versions are mostly what comes up if you put that spec into Autotrader and they're pretty subtle if you get one without the wing, but I suspect not that refined for a long journey.
.

Any boosted 2.0 turbo might feel a bit lame when you're used to the diesel torque from a 3-litre TT engine.
I read the A45 is especially dull when not in full attack mode?! A golf R probably provides more comfort but I can see most of the performance being lost on the motorway?

Also the ride comfort of a short wheelbase car might be lacking. Why not go one size smaller and compromise with something like a 330d/340d or 440i?

To be honest, I don't really mind dull. The 640d is dull. I did the Edinburgh run back to back in it and in the E63 just after the Merc had new front tyres and an alignment, and realised just how dull the 6 series is, but dull-with-grunt makes it great on the motorway and perfectly ok on most of the A roads it's used on.

I've driven the 330d, and a 4 series (I think it was either the 418d or 420d). They were OK, but the seating position was a bit awkward from what I remember. The 40i cars are out of budget, but I guess I should have a look at the 435d, although it might be a bit like just buying a slightly worse 640d. If the Euro 6 cutover happened earlier in the 4 that might help price wise, thinking about it. Worth a Google anyway, thanks.

[E63eeeeee...]

ChrisH79 said:

If you fancy a Scirocco why not a 3 door Leon?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304055...

I really liked my Seat and I think the Leon is a great looking car, but it basically has all the cons of the Scirocco (that it really shouldn't be on the list at all) without the selling point that I really want one for no very good reason.

[joshcowin]

Terzo123 said:

It's not just 30 quid for each transgression though.

Copied from the Council page

You cannot pay to enter a LEZ.

From 1 June 2023, if a non-compliant vehicle is detected in Glasgow's LEZ, a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) will be issued to the registered keeper of that vehicle.

A maximum of one PCN will be issued to the vehicle's registered keeper for breaching LEZ rules in any one day.

Set at national level by the Scottish Government for consistency across cities, the initial penalty charge for all non-compliant vehicles entering a LEZ in Scotland will be £60.

A scheme surcharge however means that the penalty charge amount will double with each subsequent breach of the rules by the same vehicle detected in the same LEZ.

Surcharging will only start however after the first PCN (issued at the initial base tier of £60) can be expected to have been received by the vehicle's registered keeper.

Penalty charge rates are capped at £480 for cars and light goods vehicles, and £960 for buses and HGVs. Any further breaches of LEZ rules by the same vehicle detected in the same LEZ once this cap is reached will result in future PCNs issued at the capped penalty charge rate.

Where there are no further breaches of the rules detected within the 90 days following a previous violation, the penalty rate will be reset to the base tier charge of £60.

All PCNs will be reduced by 50% if paid within 14 days.

All revenue (above that incurred in running the LEZ scheme itself) can only be used for activities that help reduce air pollution and/or contribute toward achieving our climate change targets.

Fair play! Makes sense then to change cars!

[OutInTheShed]

E63eeeeee... said:

Yeah, if it worked like that I'd just suck it up, but it counts every day as a new infraction (I'm usually there at least one night) and doubles the fine every time it spots you.

It's really brutal as a scheme. I wouldn't mind parking or staying outside the zone and walking in but basically all the car parks and all the hotels are in the zone and I suspect that any smart ways round it will be quickly full of locals.

That's crazy.
But I suspect it's the shape of things to come elsewhere.

[ZX10R NIN]

E63eeeeee... said:

Thanks, I'd ruled out hybrids on the basis that they're not that helpful for high speed driving and the car will spend 95% of its life at national speed limit speeds, but those adverts suggest the hybrid bit will actually work at 70, so will see if I can find a Q50 to test.

The Hybrid works upto 70mph the you just have to rely on the 3.5 V6 they give decent numbers on a run.