ULEZ cameras and right to privacy

[EK3vtec]

I live just inside the intended ULEZ expansion bordering Surrey. I live on the the corner of a dead end road, the road ends in woodland, and the road running down the garden side, and 50% of my property according to the official posted map is not inside the zone and therefore not ULEZ.

TfL have just installed a power box on the other side of the road, and marked the pavement for installation of an ANPR camera pole, despite Croydon Council saying they would not allow TfL installations on council property.

The proposed location of this pole appears that it will allow the camera permanent view/surveillance of the entire frontage of my property, which I find objectionable, in view of part of property not in the zone, and the apparent permission been given to the Met Police to use the camera output for purposes other than the policing of ULEZ. I’m not up to anything nefarious but don’t like the idea that they could be looking in my bedroom window if the blinds are open.

Can I insist that I am permitted to view the output from the camera, and should it view my property/invade my privacy have the camera angle altered so that it does not? What mechanism/procedure/authority would I best use to do this?

[Bill]

Aren't they ANPR cameras? So unless you were a number plate to bed you'll be fine.

[EK3vtec]

To my mind, a camera is a camera and I thought that there was a ‘plain view’ output recorded to verify against incorrect plate recognition

Besides, you can be sure any number plate I wear to bed would be in an illegal format

Edited by EK3vtec on Wednesday 24th May 07:22

[Ian Geary]

As long as it's at least an 07 plate or older and consenting, I don't see what the problem might be?

[B235r]

Think of it this way you won't have to use the car to go & set it on fire, doing your bit for the planet

[EK3vtec]

We do have a non ULEZ car we would like to keep and use, and it is parked on the the part of my property that is not in ULEZ, is used to go out daily out off the zone - I think I may struggle with the arses at TfL if the camera is able to view my entire drive that I was operating perfectly legally and not subject to their rip-off charges

[HantsRat]

ANPR cameras have digital lines drawn and activation zones to represent the road. Your driveway will be fine.

[kiethton]

If you're that close just get the pole clippers out, plenty have already been snipped and your privacy won't be invaded

[SteveStrange]

EK3vtec said:

I live just inside the intended ULEZ expansion bordering Surrey. I live on the the corner of a dead end road, the road ends in woodland, and the road running down the garden side, and 50% of my property according to the official posted map is not inside the zone and therefore not ULEZ.

TfL have just installed a power box on the other side of the road, and marked the pavement for installation of an ANPR camera pole, despite Croydon Council saying they would not allow TfL installations on council property.

The proposed location of this pole appears that it will allow the camera permanent view/surveillance of the entire frontage of my property, which I find objectionable, in view of part of property not in the zone, and the apparent permission been given to the Met Police to use the camera output for purposes other than the policing of ULEZ. I’m not up to anything nefarious but don’t like the idea that they could be looking in my bedroom window if the blinds are open.

Can I insist that I am permitted to view the output from the camera, and should it view my property/invade my privacy have the camera angle altered so that it does not? What mechanism/procedure/authority would I best use to do this?

I have put up enforcement cameras before (not ULEZ, more bus lanes etc - and not London/Met) and have had similar objections which have been upheld, meaning we have either relocated the cameras, adjusted the view, or proven to the objectee that the position does not give us a high level of detail - not enough to identify a person or activity going on within the house. I think it's a bit of a drawn out process but if you start with the particular borough's highways department, they should be able to help or put you in touch with the right person. It will be the network management team rather than enforcement, I think.

[vikingaero]

kiethton said:

If you're that close just get the pole clippers out, plenty have already been snipped and your privacy won't be invaded

I would be mischievous for the sake of it. Position a pulsing light/UV light pointing at the camera lens. Or put a ladder up, take a picture of the road from the cameras POV and mount the photo in front of the lens.

[EK3vtec]

The UV light might not be that useful during the daytime, but I get your point. Maybe a laser would give a useful lens flare/scatter, not that I would do such a thing….

[InitialDave]

EK3vtec said:

What mechanism/procedure/authority would I best use to do this?

It depends what kind of pole the camera is mounted to.

Chainsaw for wood, oxygen acetylene for metal.

[fred bloggs]

A ulez camera that close to my property would stand NO chance of being operational whatsoever. I would take great Joy in watching them fit new ones each time.

Im in Biggin hill kent, utterly rural, but inside the new zone. The cows make more pollution than anything ,its 90% farmland.

[Grumps.]

Until you are caught and prosecuted.

[HantsRat]

fred bloggs said:

A ulez camera that close to my property would stand NO chance of being operational whatsoever. I would take great Joy in watching them fit new ones each time.

[EK3vtec]

Just had a visit from workmen changing the previous LEZ signage with a like for like version that has a peel off LEZ logo, revealing the ULEZ one…. at 11.30 pm..

Spoke to the workman, a perfectly reasonable guy, who is going to have to sell his 15 plate diesel as it’s not compliant, who tells me they have been ordered to do all ULEZ installation at night so as not to attract attention from angry motorists/residents

What a sneaky bd that Mayor Kahn is - ordering cameras before the (rigged) consultation, and installing infrastructure at night… what will he do if the Judicial Review says he acted illegally and has to stop? Probably go straight to road charging…

[doc261]

Cities all over the world are restricting private cars from city centres in a bid to tackle pollution levels and improve public health. Of course there will be individuals who will have difficulties financially and logistically but thousands die in London due to air pollution

[SlimJim16v]

doc261 said:

thousands die in London due to air pollution

[SteveStrange]

EK3vtec said:

Just had a visit from workmen changing the previous LEZ signage with a like for like version that has a peel off LEZ logo, revealing the ULEZ one…. at 11.30 pm..

Spoke to the workman, a perfectly reasonable guy, who is going to have to sell his 15 plate diesel as it’s not compliant, who tells me they have been ordered to do all ULEZ installation at night so as not to attract attention from angry motorists/residents

What a sneaky bd that Mayor Kahn is - ordering cameras before the (rigged) consultation, and installing infrastructure at night… what will he do if the Judicial Review says he acted illegally and has to stop? Probably go straight to road charging…

To be fair, the guys putting the cameras up are just contractors doing their jobs. The same guys who would be fixing traffic lights when they get hit by cars etc. Not fair on them to have angry and/or unreasonable residents threatening them etc for something that is completely outside of their control. This will not have been ordered, or even on the radar, of Khan, it will have been ordered by the highways dept's H&S team.

I've had similar when, for example, moving telegraph poles in advance of (unpopular) cycle lane works. They are fk all to do with me, but I still get angry residents come out and threaten to burn my van, or suggest that it should be MY kids that get hit and injured by cycles riding on footways etc. So now I do contentious works at night or at 5am.

I am NO Khan supporter but the ULEZ expansion was clearly published in his manifesto and he got voted in.

I've told you above what to do if you feel your privacy is being violated.

[siremoon]

doc261 said:

Cities all over the world are restricting private cars from city centres in a bid to tackle pollution levels and improve public health. Of course there will be individuals who will have difficulties financially and logistically but thousands die in London due to air pollution

Since when have the outer suburbs of Greater London been the city centre?

And let's force everybody onto the tube where it's been demonstrated the air quality on some parts is way worse than the statutory levels and several studies have illustrated that the ULEZ expansion will make little difference. Everybody knows it is really a mechanism to shore up TfL's finances masquerading as a health initiative. It is deeply unpopular in London and could even cost Khan the mayoral election next year.