Experience of 7-speed dogleg manual

[gubsta]

Hi all,

The new shape Vantage AMR manual cars seem to have taken a real bath from their original £150k price tag and are now down in the £90s - not much more than the ZF auto cars.

On paper this seems like a wonderful proposition (further depreciation aside!)

I've watched and read every review of the 7spd manual cars and opinion seems to be split. The idea of an 'into first' money shift does not appeal...

However I'm not a 10/10ths driver on the road and most of the time enjoy making brisk progress and being involved in the drive.

Can people who own (rather than have driven) these cars give me a view on the gearbox. Does it frustrate?

Thanks

[AdamV12V]

There was a fairy comprehensive thread on this recently. Suggest you give that a read as I think it will answer all your questions:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[chesby]

gubsta said:

Hi all,

Can people who own (rather than have driven) these cars give me a view on the gearbox. Does it frustrate?

Thanks

It’s not necessarily the people who have only driven a car with a 7 speed dog leg gearbox briefly that are quick to offer an opinion but the keyboard warriors / dreamers that have never driven an Aston with the gearbox, or any other Aston for that matter, who are usually the quickest to give their opinion.

I love the gearbox In the V12 Vantage S. In the new style V8 Vantage I do not know if the gearbox suits the character of the car.

[pan51]

Hi,

gubsta said:

Does it frustrate?

I my opinion your question cannot be answered by anyone but you alone because it depends which type of driver you are, how much you are willing to learn basic things again and how long you're able to keep a stiff upper lip.

First: don't trust any opinion you've read or seen on youtube or elsewhere...all those guys had the press cars for some hours only. You can't decide on a test ride if it's something for you or not.

I took the chance to buy one of those manuals, knowing that there might be problems. I drove almost 2000kms, always checking the gear on the instrument before releasing the clutch. I now still sometimes miss a gear but that's once in a week and that is part of the game (as a learner I missed gears on a beetle as well...). Anyhow, you need some time to get your hand accustomed to the fine movements needed for that narrow gates.
I know of two other guys that have a manual and are frustrated. One changed to automatic recently.

The known service bulletin does not apply to all serial numbers at least not to mine. I still have sometimes problems when it's cold and I start in first uphill that first gear jumps out. Mechanic says it sometimes is the case that wrong gear oil was filled so we change it next service and I watch next autumn. However it's controllable but one needs to concentrate. That's what I mean, type of driver, if you're a lazy one, this gearbox is NOT for you.
Same if you like to drive with a permanently dragging clutch. You then need a new one after 4000kms.

And to some extend it's physically demanding, e.g. if you're driving for 20kms on narrow twisty roads with opposite traffic, you'll sweat for sure. But that's exactly what I personally wanted; all in all it's a brilliant car for me. And it is a daily!

Hope I could help.

Cheers,
Axel

Edited by pan51 on Thursday 1st June 13:19

Edited by pan51 on Thursday 1st June 13:20

[Upperworks]

Ok, so I’ve decided to sell my 7spd V12VSR and keep my 6spd coupe. After a long time going back and forth, I definitely prefer the 6spd box. Of course this isn’t an option in current gen Vantage. So I would have one over paddles. It’s not a bad box at all, but it is a bit more of an effort than a regular manual.

[Jon39]

gubsta said:

Hi all,

The new shape Vantage AMR manual cars seem to have taken a real bath from their original £150k price tag and are now down in the £90s - not much more than the ZF auto cars.

I presume the AMR models and especially the manuals, would command a price premium, but your arithmetic happens to exactly correspond to the initial depreciation of the core model VH V8 Vantage.
40% reduction, list to retail, during the first 3 years.

[ctal28]

I have never driven the newer body Vantage with the seven speed manual transmission, however I do own a 2017 V12 Vantage S roadster with the 7 speed manual. I have owned and been driving it for over 5 years. It was a ten minute adjustment for me. Once mastered, it became, and continues to be a very enjoyable experience. I would suggest not letting it influence a potential purchase decision.

[LooneyTunes]

ctal28 said:

I have never driven the newer body Vantage with the seven speed manual transmission, however I do own a 2017 V12 Vantage S roadster with the 7 speed manual. I have owned and been driving it for over 5 years. It was a ten minute adjustment for me. Once mastered, it became, and continues to be a very enjoyable experience. I would suggest not letting it influence a potential purchase decision.

I think it may depend on how many manual cars you drive.

My V12VSM is an outlier in my garage in terms of being a dogleg first. All of the other manuals, whether 4, 5 or 6 speed, are more conventional arrangements. They also get used more than the Vantage. As a result the 7-speed requires more thinking about on an ongoing basis (I also think it would be easier if R was firmer sprung/better gated), which means changes don’t flow as well and makes it the least rewarding to use as a result.

Suspect I might feel different about it if it was my only/main manual gearbox.

[Wayne95]

I spoke to my AM dealer about a manual. He said they are hard to sell, and can be a bit less to buy than an equivalent auto. So no premium over autos.

The engine revs quickly, and with so many gears there’s a lot of shifting to be done. He knows of quite a few people that changed to auto having bought the manual.

However , conjecture as I have no managed to locate one to try yet, is that if it’s occasionally used it will take along time to acclimatise, but as a daily maybe you get dialled in, as suggested above.

Trouble is, to find this out you have to buy one and use it regularly, so a leap of faith .

I did try an auto. The car was great, but I still find an auto less engaging than my manual VH vantage . Fast, yes, good handling, yes, but still felt a bit like the gearbox would rather I let it get on with it than me playing with the gears .

So, I have not switched yet, despite all the other positives, and want to try the manual ..,

[Wayne95]

I spoke to my AM dealer about a manual. He said they are hard to sell, and can be a bit less to buy than an equivalent auto. So no premium over autos.

The engine revs quickly, and with so many gears there’s a lot of shifting to be done. He knows of quite a few people that changed to auto having bought the manual.

However , conjecture as I have no managed to locate one to try yet, is that if it’s occasionally used it will take along time to acclimatise, but as a daily maybe you get dialled in, as suggested above.

Trouble is, to find this out you have to buy one and use it regularly, so a leap of faith .

I did try an auto. The car was great, but I still find an auto less engaging than my manual VH vantage . Fast, yes, good handling, yes, but still felt a bit like the gearbox would rather I let it get on with it than me playing with the gears .

So, I have not switched yet, despite all the other positives, and want to try the manual ..,

[GreasyHands]

I am a manual fan, in general, but the AMR shifter was just not pleasing to me on a test drive.

It wasn't so much the dog leg but it was not a fun, smooth shifting gearbox Seemed a bit clunky for alack of a better word. IMO, the auto just suits this car better. Maybe I've been spoiled by so many manual Porsches. On the other hand, in the past few years, I've also owned stick Audis and BMW and both were better than Aston for me. I took an Emira for a test drive last fall, while I wait forever for my new car to arrive, and enjoyed it immediately.

I don't think the dogleg would put me off although I do have a number of manual cars so switching back and forth may be a bit of a pain...not sure.

Oh..and the shifter knob is uglier than sin. Unfortunate, considering the masterpiece the last generation knob was. Every time, I had to look at it, it would make me sad,LOL.

[MCSV8]

My Aston has a 5 speed dog-leg 'box and after 30-odd years of ownership it becomes second nature - did a track day at Castle Combe last week.

So stick with it !

Edited by MCSV8 on Saturday 3rd June 11:41

[gubsta]

Thanks guys - good feedback and thoughts.

The car would be for high days and holidays and in the household we already have a conventional auto - an automated manual and a manual car.

The manual car is my station car - a mk7 golf GTI performance with a short shift kit. It is fun to pedal round at any speed and it makes me feel like I’m 17 again. I’m looking for the fun of that with the special occasion-ness of something proper. Trying desperately not to buy a Porsche!

[ctal28]

Oh..and the shifter knob is uglier than sin. Unfortunate, considering the masterpiece the last generation knob was. Every time, I had to look at it, it would make me sad,LOL.[/quote Greasy Hands]

Agreed on the shifter knob.......there is an alternative!

Edited by ctal28 on Saturday 3rd June 13:21

[AdamV12V]

ctal28 said:

Oh..and the shifter knob is uglier than sin. Unfortunate, considering the masterpiece the last generation knob was. Every time, I had to look at it, it would make me sad,LOL.[/quote Greasy Hands]

Agreed on the shifter knob.......there is an alternative!

Edited by ctal28 on Saturday 3rd June 13:21

This thread is talking about the new V8 Vantage not the VH gen V12VSM... Im not sure that shifter would fit in the newer car.

[cayman-black]

ctal28 said:

Oh..and the shifter knob is uglier than sin. Unfortunate, considering the masterpiece the last generation knob was. Every time, I had to look at it, it would make me sad,LOL.[/quote Greasy Hands]

Agreed on the shifter knob.......there is an alternative!

Edited by ctal28 on Saturday 3rd June 13:21

That's much better, best gear knob on any car imo.

[kh218]

Ok, here’s from someone who’s owned a ‘21 Vantage manual for 2 years, 6000km driven. Often used as a daily as well as occasional track car. I also have a 992 GT3 Touring manual since March, which I’ve only driven for around 1000km. Surprised to find myself preferring the Vantage to the GT3T for anything other than track thus far. Here’s a quick comparison:

Things I prefer in the Vantage:

Gear shift:
The Graziano shifter is NOT a problem at all for anything but 10/10th driving. Money-shift shouldn’t be a worry as the detents for 1st and R are well measured in term of pressure required. What I enjoy most about the shifter is the mechanical feel/sounds it makes when rowing thru the gears (Matt Becker mentioned in an interview that insulation for the gearshift was purposefully removed for mechanical sound and feel). In comparison the GT3T’s gearshift is more muted and insulated in mechanical feel.

Pedal placement:
The accelerator pedal feels like it sits pretty flush with the brake pedal, make for easy heel n toe (more like side-of-foot n toe) even for casual spirited driving. I never gotten along w Porsche pedal placement as I found the brake pedals to be too high. For me Porsche is good for heel n toe only under hard braking, which doesn’t happen often outside of a track.

Engine sound and power curve below 5000 rpm:
For street use and mountain drives, the Vantage’s V8 is great with torque coming on early. However after 5000 rpm the power curve flattens and then dips after 6000 rpm, which would make redline pulls less enjoyable. I don’t drive a lot of highways so the torque curve suits just fine. In terms of the engine power curve, the GT3T is quite the opposite of the Vantage and it really need to be at 5000rpm and above for punch. Sometimes when I tried to overtake at 4000rpm, I’d be surprised by the lack of initial pull.

Interior:
I have black leather in both cars, but the Vantage’s interior just feels more expensive and special compared to the 992. Also I don’t get the bickering about the merc infotainment system, esp since it’s a manual car. My enjoyment of the car over two years was never hampered by the the infotainment system, in the same way lack of fancy digital screen never gotten in the way of my enjoying 90’s and 00’s manual sports cars.

Exterior and feel good factor:
Just feels more special compared to the GT3T, even w PTS color

All in all, I find the manual Vantage to be a very enjoyable modern sports car for drivers who care less about 10/10th performance and more about old school feel, sound, touch.

[Wayne95]

kh218 said:

Ok, here’s from someone who’s owned a ‘21 Vantage manual for 2 years, 6000km driven. Often used as a daily as well as occasional track car. I also have a 992 GT3 Touring manual since March, which I’ve only driven for around 1000km. Surprised to find myself preferring the Vantage to the GT3T for anything other than track thus far. Here’s a quick comparison:

Things I prefer in the Vantage:

Gear shift:
The Graziano shifter is NOT a problem at all for anything but 10/10th driving. Money-shift shouldn’t be a worry as the detents for 1st and R are well measured in term of pressure required. What I enjoy most about the shifter is the mechanical feel/sounds it makes when rowing thru the gears (Matt Becker mentioned in an interview that insulation for the gearshift was purposefully removed for mechanical sound and feel). In comparison the GT3T’s gearshift is more muted and insulated in mechanical feel.

Pedal placement:
The accelerator pedal feels like it sits pretty flush with the brake pedal, make for easy heel n toe (more like side-of-foot n toe) even for casual spirited driving. I never gotten along w Porsche pedal placement as I found the brake pedals to be too high. For me Porsche is good for heel n toe only under hard braking, which doesn’t happen often outside of a track.

Engine sound and power curve below 5000 rpm:
For street use and mountain drives, the Vantage’s V8 is great with torque coming on early. However after 5000 rpm the power curve flattens and then dips after 6000 rpm, which would make redline pulls less enjoyable. I don’t drive a lot of highways so the torque curve suits just fine. In terms of the engine power curve, the GT3T is quite the opposite of the Vantage and it really need to be at 5000rpm and above for punch. Sometimes when I tried to overtake at 4000rpm, I’d be surprised by the lack of initial pull.

Interior:
I have black leather in both cars, but the Vantage’s interior just feels more expensive and special compared to the 992. Also I don’t get the bickering about the merc infotainment system, esp since it’s a manual car. My enjoyment of the car over two years was never hampered by the the infotainment system, in the same way lack of fancy digital screen never gotten in the way of my enjoying 90’s and 00’s manual sports cars.

Exterior and feel good factor:
Just feels more special compared to the GT3T, even w PTS color

All in all, I find the manual Vantage to be a very enjoyable modern sports car for drivers who care less about 10/10th performance and more about old school feel, sound, touch.

Very informative post, thanks. It has made up my mind to find a manual and try it - daily is a VH vantage with only 6 gears, but I much prefer it over the new vantage auto I tried. Outright 10/10th is not what I want, just an engaging drive on public roads. I like the interior too, much better than the DB11 just because its more distinctive, and I prefer buttons.

There are just not many manuals to choose from in the UK apart from the 59’s which are a bit pricey for me

[kh218]

Wayne95 said:

Very informative post, thanks. It has made up my mind to find a manual and try it - daily is a VH vantage with only 6 gears, but I much prefer it over the new vantage auto I tried. Outright 10/10th is not what I want, just an engaging drive on public roads. I like the interior too, much better than the DB11 just because its more distinctive, and I prefer buttons.

There are just not many manuals to choose from in the UK apart from the 59’s which are a bit pricey for me

Only changes I’ve done to the car are adding CarPlay and DAE OPF delete pipe (‘21 came w OPF, earlier ones probably not.)

[pan51]

kh218 said:

Only changes I’ve done to the car are adding CarPlay and DAE OPF delete pipe (‘21 came w OPF, earlier ones probably not.)

May I ask: which system did you choose and where is the unit placed? I heard space is rare so they place it under the carpet in the legroom of the co-driver...causing a not so nice bulge.

Cheers,
Axel