Will you donate your organs to help others?
Will you donate your organs to help others?
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Ace-T

Original Poster:

8,400 posts

285 months

Monday 29th August 2005
quotequote all
No Vixpy, not that! ;)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-1754799,00.html
[quote=The Times Online]
Delivering a body blow to science
Matthew Syed

The Human Tissues Act will prove a dangerous obstacle to important medical research

THREE THINGS can happen to a dead body: it can be dumped in a grave to be eaten by worms, cast into a crematorium to be incinerated or donated to the medical profession for the good of mankind. You might have thought that public policy would emphatically favour the latter. But no, the Human Tissue Act, of which the main provisions come into force next year, seems to assign greater value to corpses than to living people in desperate need of an organ donation.

Not only has the Government failed to grasp the nettle of “presumed consent” (in which everyone is assumed to have consented to the use of their organs unless they have explicitly registered an objection), but also new draft guidelines advise doctors to allow relatives to veto organ removal, even when the deceased carried a donor card. A pathologist friend of mine told me this week that objections are typically expressed thus: “Oooh, I couldn’t possibly bear the thought of Johnny being cut up like that!” To give legislative weight to such fastidiousness is absurd.

*
If this sounds cold-hearted, let me give you some statistics that will really chill your blood. Today more than 8,000 people in the UK are waiting for an organ transplant, many in considerable pain. Last year 452 died while waiting in hope. Many lose their lives before they even get on to the waiting list. Why allow the relatives of the recently deceased, who often admit later that they would have made a more rational decision had they not been asked at a time of emotional distress, to trump such vital interests?

BBC 1’s Casualty programme on Saturday evening gave viewers a vote as to which of two patients should benefit from a donation. But it failed to tell us that we would not need to make so many life-and-death decisions if we got to grip with the chronic organ shortage. By pussyfooting around in its approach to dead bodies, the Government is giving a kicking to some of the most vulnerable in our society. One depressing consequence of this is that a significant number of those on the waiting list take off to foreign climes to purchase an organ from a living third-world donor, something that is forbidden in the United Kingdom. The poor have no option but to wait in vain.

The Human Tissue Authority’s position on the retention of body parts for medical research after a post-mortem examination is equally flawed. The new consent forms could have been drafted by some malign figure seeking to halt the precious flow of human tissue into the path lab. The forms are so lengthy that doctors rarely have time to complete them and, even if they try, the wording is so graphic that relatives tend to leg it before signing. In consequence, the number of post mortems has plummeted, something that could have “seriously damaging implications for the future of medical research and training” according to Peter Furness, professor of pathology at Leicester General Hospital.

All this dangerous nonsense has come in response to the Alder Hey scandal, in which children’s bodies were stripped of their organs without parental consent. The real scandal, however, was not the stripping per se but the deceit of Dick van Velzen (who lied to parents about his procedures), coupled with the fact that he was so disorganised that many of the organs were not used for research purposes.

The wider worry is that the moral myopia evident in the Human Tissue Act seems to infect every facet of the contemporary debate on medical ethics. Take the perilously timid approach to embryonic stem cell research. The United States, for example, refuses government funding to scientists who wish to carry out potentially ground-breaking research on the surplus embryos created by IVF treatment. Which is fine with me, so long as the culpable legislators are never allowed to benefit from any treatment inspired by such research.

Senators profess to be worried that embryonic research fails to respect the dignity of “potential persons”. Rarely can such a vacuous concept have found its way into a debate purporting to provide enlightenment. When is this “potential” supposed to kick in? It is no less absurd than the Roman Catholic contention that coming in a condom is tantamount to murder.

In case you were wondering, these supposedly precious embryos are at the same stage of development (five to nine days) as those that are routinely terminated by the Pill without anyone raising a whimper. Thankfully, the British Government has repudiated the position of the United States and operates one of the most liberal regimes in Europe, in which licences have been awarded to researchers to create embryos for medical research.

It is possible that, in years to come, scientists will be able to grow organs in the lab and find cures for a range of debilitating diseases and injuries including Parkinson’s disease, diabetes, heart disease and multiple sclerosis.

The fundamental problem with our approach to ethics, manifested in both our mythologising over corpses and embryos, is our inability to separate emotion from policy. The only factor that should enter our moral and legal deliberations is that of welfare, a concept that is meaningless when applied to entities that lack self-consciousness. Never forget that the research that we are so reluctant to conduct upon embryos and dead bodies is routinely carried out on living, pain-sensitive animals. This double standard will come to be seen by future historians as one of the great barbarisms of the age.[/quote]

Personally, if I died and my heart, liver, kidneys etc were in good enough nick I would want them to be used to help others be they stuck in a person or in a jar.

Believe me I understand how difficult it is as a relative to offer this to the docs. My father died suddenly of a massive heart attack and my mother offered the doctors the option of any of his vital organs ('cept his heart of course - it was a bit buggered by then :)) shortly after it happened. She consulted us kids first and we were kinda cool with the idea that bits would be used in other people. Strangely enough it is a kind of immortality isn't it?

I am just sad that more people aren't as selfless and giving as my mum. :(

Ace-T :)

-DeaDLocK-

3,368 posts

281 months

Monday 29th August 2005
quotequote all
I'd be happy for bits from my parents to be shared, and I know that any of my relatives would be supportive of me donating my bits once I pop it (in fact the way we are I expect everyone will be an organ donor).

Given time I think people will come round - it's not particularly prevalent in the modern psyche, but the up and coming generation will be accepting I reckon. Seems to be this greater acceptance of mortality but yet an ever increasing respect of movements where we seek to delay the inevitable.

Trooper2

6,676 posts

261 months

Monday 29th August 2005
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I will be, it says so on the back of my drivers license. Don't think I'll be needing them at that point.

catso

16,444 posts

297 months

Monday 29th August 2005
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as long as Bliar doesn't get them

ZR1cliff

17,999 posts

279 months

Monday 29th August 2005
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As long as they are in good working order they can have as many parts as they want,shame to see them go to waste.

KB_S1

5,967 posts

259 months

Monday 29th August 2005
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More than happy to be recycled.

Actually I have a few spare bits if the price is right immediately available

Piglet

6,250 posts

285 months

Monday 29th August 2005
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Yep absolutely, they can have whatever they want. My sister only has one kidney, she's in her mid 40's and live perfectly ok with just the one but it's always something we're concious of that if anything goes wrong with it she's buggered.

little me

544 posts

266 months

Monday 29th August 2005
quotequote all
I'm on the donor list and have made my relative aware of my wishes. If I can help somone live after I have gone then thats a great feeling.
I'm not sure of my parents wishes, and would need to discuss it at the time with the remaining parent and my brother.

Jane x

Balmoral Green

42,561 posts

278 months

Monday 29th August 2005
quotequote all
I went on the list as soon as it was introduced, I have carried a card for decades. I have also made a point of reminding them about the skin bank too. Mrs BG is registered and BG junior too which I feel is especially important as kids parts are hard to come by.

They can use anything they want, and whats left can be cut up by students for amusement.

mutt k

3,964 posts

268 months

Monday 29th August 2005
quotequote all
Balmoral Green said:
They can use anything they want, and whats left can be cut up by students for amusement.
or eaten with Fava beans and a nice Chianti perhaps?

shirepro

11,838 posts

265 months

Monday 29th August 2005
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I was rather hoping to completely wreck my bits before I leave this world, but if not they can anything that is still working

mxdi

13,994 posts

279 months

Monday 29th August 2005
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We were discussing this today, I recall signing something when I applied for/signed something recently that made me a donor.
They wont want my ticker though that has enough wrong with it as it is. Everything else I assume is in good nick.

zoe22

856 posts

273 months

Monday 29th August 2005
quotequote all
Yeah why not, Im not gonna need them...

Saying that, i dont actaullly have donor card or somesuch (added to the to-do list)

wedge girl

4,688 posts

269 months

Monday 29th August 2005
quotequote all
I have a note in my Will to state if my organs are not good enough for donation then I would like my body to go to medical research.

If my relatives fail to carry out my wishes, I'll come back and haunt them.

goo-goo-gjoob

812 posts

285 months

Monday 29th August 2005
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I was thinking of donating my body to a university or something for medical research or student practice. Probably will, just have to find out how to do it.

spicy

246 posts

266 months

Monday 29th August 2005
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I'm happy for any bits to be used for transplantation and have had a donor card for many many years. However I don't like the idea of medical students having my body to play with. I understand how important it is for students to learn but I think that some would be disrespectful. Even though I'd be dead it does bother me to think of my body being used for that.

goo-goo-gjoob

812 posts

285 months

Monday 29th August 2005
quotequote all
spicy said:
I'm happy for any bits to be used for transplantation and have had a donor card for many many years. However I don't like the idea of medical students having my body to play with. I understand how important it is for students to learn but I think that some would be disrespectful. Even though I'd be dead it does bother me to think of my body being used for that.

Understandable, but it's for a good purpose. The prodding will help future doctors perform better operations on people. To me, that makes it worth it.

jessica

6,321 posts

282 months

Monday 29th August 2005
quotequote all
Balmoral Green said:
I went on the list as soon as it was introduced, I have carried a card for decades. I have also made a point of reminding them about the skin bank too. Mrs BG is registered and BG junior too which I feel is especially important as kids parts are hard to come by.

They can use anything they want, and whats left can be cut up by students for amusement.



Having worked in anatomy.. I can vouch for the ammusment bit....

commendable to have the donor cards.
just be aware that if you end up on life support and die(brain dead) they keep the body bit alive so they can place the organs....
Just so you all know.
My next of kin has my permission to donate everything but my corneas(that though gives me the willies!!)
oh and my liver coz that wouldnt be fair,.............

jessica

6,321 posts

282 months

Monday 29th August 2005
quotequote all
goo-goo-gjoob said:
I was thinking of donating my body to a university or something for medical research or student practice. Probably will, just have to find out how to do it.
y

You have to call the medical school and register.
If you die in suspicious then u have to have PM so no good.
if you die from a disease no good,
you have to die from normal stuff.
at least that is how it used to be.

goo-goo-gjoob

812 posts

285 months

Monday 29th August 2005
quotequote all
jessica said:

just be aware that if you end up on life support and die(brain dead) they keep the body bit alive so they can place the organs....

As long as I don't hear anyone mention the words "persistant vegetative state." St, I said it.