Ferrari FF to GTC4Lusso V12
Discussion
dwrights said:
Anyone on here made the leap?
My FF has only covered 14k miles but I would love to upgrade to the Lusso V12
Cost of upgrade will be around the £55k mark.
Is it worth it or should I just go the whole hog and put in £100k + and get an 812 Superfast?
Thoughts?
It depends on what you're after. The Lusso is slightly larger than the FF, more refined and worse looking from some angles and better from others. The interior is a big improvement, especially the infotainment which applies 10x if you can get one with carplay and you're an iOS user.My FF has only covered 14k miles but I would love to upgrade to the Lusso V12
Cost of upgrade will be around the £55k mark.
Is it worth it or should I just go the whole hog and put in £100k + and get an 812 Superfast?
Thoughts?
I haven't driven an 812 but the F12 is more exciting and lairy compared to the FF. I've heard that the 812 is easier to drive and more refined than the F12 which probably puts it into FF territory on those metrics.
So I get the impression that FF and 812 are about even stevens for refinement and driver confidence while the Lusso will take you up a notch on refinement but lose the excitement of the FF or 812.
Go and drive one. Any of the main delaers would likely be falling over themselves to offer you a drive as these cars aren't easy to sell. Most people are just scared of the unkown.
I have an FF and experienced a Lusso a couple of weeks ago. Personally I wouldn't change. For me it just wasn't worth the cost to change and standing there looking at it I realised I actually preferred the FF styling.
FF vs F12 or 812 - well really they are different cars I chose an FF over an F12 purely from a useablility perspective. rear seats, a boot I can get a bike in and a dog in.
I've realised there's now nothing I'd change my FF for. it's a perfect all rounder.
I have an FF and experienced a Lusso a couple of weeks ago. Personally I wouldn't change. For me it just wasn't worth the cost to change and standing there looking at it I realised I actually preferred the FF styling.
FF vs F12 or 812 - well really they are different cars I chose an FF over an F12 purely from a useablility perspective. rear seats, a boot I can get a bike in and a dog in.
I've realised there's now nothing I'd change my FF for. it's a perfect all rounder.
Edited by 21ATS on Thursday 22 June 13:34
dwrights said:
Anyone on here made the leap?
My FF has only covered 14k miles but I would love to upgrade to the Lusso V12
Cost of upgrade will be around the £55k mark.
Is it worth it or should I just go the whole hog and put in £100k + and get an 812 Superfast?
Thoughts?
I remember you getting your delicious silver FF with the chocolate interior. It's sublime. Never sell it! But if you do, please let me have it! My FF has only covered 14k miles but I would love to upgrade to the Lusso V12
Cost of upgrade will be around the £55k mark.
Is it worth it or should I just go the whole hog and put in £100k + and get an 812 Superfast?
Thoughts?
ANOpax said:
I haven't driven an 812 but the F12 is more exciting and lairy compared to the FF. I've heard that the 812 is easier to drive and more refined than the F12 which probably puts it into FF territory on those metrics.
So I get the impression that FF and 812 are about even stevens for refinement and driver confidence while the Lusso will take you up a notch on refinement but lose the excitement of the FF or 812.
Sorry, but absolutely not from my experience….. the 812 is an out and out supercar in a GT body. Actually more aggressively geared and more full on than an F12 due to its four wheel steering. I love my 812 as a supercar but wouldn't want to rack up motorway miles in it as would be very tiresome from my experience. Also, it gets its power down much better than an F12 but still occasionally tries to kill you at times; just like it’s trying to keep you on your toes. Not really a relaxing car; but the best I’ve ever had at putting a smile on my face. So I get the impression that FF and 812 are about even stevens for refinement and driver confidence while the Lusso will take you up a notch on refinement but lose the excitement of the FF or 812.
I’ve had both, had an fFF for two years when they launched the Lusso and idecided that Ferrari had managed to sort some of the styling issues that made the FF look a bit clumsy (side view), so put a deposit down and received one of the earliest cars in the country . Used as my daily driver putting on over 30k miles over three years.
I now think the FF is the better looking car, not pretty but more dramatic. Its biggest drawback is the, very dated, infotainment meaning that it’s harder to use as a daily. And despite initially thinking the Lusso design had ironed out the styling issues of the FF, I now think it is less resolved. The front is too bland and whilst the side view is better, it’s more about trickery with the way the side sills are pinched-in. The back of the Lusso is attractive but the FF is more dramatic/special suiting its design better.
I also think you can see that despite a nice looking interior the Lusso’s is much lower quality than the FF. It needs a lot of CF interior options to make it make it look as special and even then the leather is too thin and wears quickly. I think you can start to see signs of Ferrari becoming a plc in the way the car has evolved (for instance no leather on the steering column on the Lusso compared to the FF). Switch gear looks good but feels cheaper.
The Lusso really is huge, which is only partially resolved by rear-wheel steer. The FF is more raw and involving.
My conclusion is that I think the premiums for Lusso to FF will fall over time.
I now think the FF is the better looking car, not pretty but more dramatic. Its biggest drawback is the, very dated, infotainment meaning that it’s harder to use as a daily. And despite initially thinking the Lusso design had ironed out the styling issues of the FF, I now think it is less resolved. The front is too bland and whilst the side view is better, it’s more about trickery with the way the side sills are pinched-in. The back of the Lusso is attractive but the FF is more dramatic/special suiting its design better.
I also think you can see that despite a nice looking interior the Lusso’s is much lower quality than the FF. It needs a lot of CF interior options to make it make it look as special and even then the leather is too thin and wears quickly. I think you can start to see signs of Ferrari becoming a plc in the way the car has evolved (for instance no leather on the steering column on the Lusso compared to the FF). Switch gear looks good but feels cheaper.
The Lusso really is huge, which is only partially resolved by rear-wheel steer. The FF is more raw and involving.
My conclusion is that I think the premiums for Lusso to FF will fall over time.
I agree with the infotainment system in the FF. I had to change it for something more modern which thankfully is quite easy as it's not an integrated unit.
Harry Metcalf did a Europe run in an 812 and commented that the gearing was a bit short for sustained long distance driving.
I guess it comes down to how you use it more than anything.
Harry Metcalf did a Europe run in an 812 and commented that the gearing was a bit short for sustained long distance driving.
I guess it comes down to how you use it more than anything.
I did a Kenwood unit in mine and I'm very happy with it.
All functionality remained, buttons behind the wheels etc. The only thing you lose in an aftermarket system is the station display in the right hand dash binnacle.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/2014-ff-...
All functionality remained, buttons behind the wheels etc. The only thing you lose in an aftermarket system is the station display in the right hand dash binnacle.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/2014-ff-...
dwrights said:
21ATS said:
I did a Kenwood unit in mine and I'm very happy with it.
All functionality remained, buttons behind the wheels etc. The only thing you lose in an aftermarket system is the station display in the right hand dash binnacle.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/2014-ff-...
Just looked on Amazon and these units are now under £300.00All functionality remained, buttons behind the wheels etc. The only thing you lose in an aftermarket system is the station display in the right hand dash binnacle.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/2014-ff-...
Thats value for money.
I was going to upgrade the speakers but found once the head unit was installed it drove the factory speakers much better and sounds good enough for me (I'm no audiophile). It would do with a sub though for a better all round sound. (I don't have the HiFi upgrade in my car).
One bit of advice I would add is find someone that's done an FF before (Or a California - it's the same Chrysler head unit/fitment), most of the lower dash has to come out and there are a couple of almost inaccessible bolts upper centre dash that need to be removed for the fitting procedure. The fitters need a bit of knowledge about where and how to get to these otherwise they could end up scratching thier heads for a while.
If you can get a late FF with Apple CarPlay then the frankly otherwise rubbish infotainment system ceases to be in issue as mapping, music, audiobooks etc are all done via CarPlay.
I was shocked to find my car actually had the upgraded Hipower system as it sounded terrible, I went aftermarket amp, speakers and sub, keeping the factory headunit - Cambridge Car Audio have done a few FFs so know what they’re doing.
I was shocked to find my car actually had the upgraded Hipower system as it sounded terrible, I went aftermarket amp, speakers and sub, keeping the factory headunit - Cambridge Car Audio have done a few FFs so know what they’re doing.
21ATS said:
That is good value.
I was going to upgrade the speakers but found once the head unit was installed it drove the factory speakers much better and sounds good enough for me (I'm no audiophile). It would do with a sub though for a better all round sound. (I don't have the HiFi upgrade in my car).
One bit of advice I would add is find someone that's done an FF before (Or a California - it's the same Chrysler head unit/fitment), most of the lower dash has to come out and there are a couple of almost inaccessible bolts upper centre dash that need to be removed for the fitting procedure. The fitters need a bit of knowledge about where and how to get to these otherwise they could end up scratching thier heads for a while.
I've literally done this last week although my car had a fault with the airbag module which had to be replaced so I had to remove the entire interior and centre console which made life a lot easier doing the stereo at the same time. Not sure what setups different year cars had but mine is a 2012 with the awful Chrysler/Harman head unit, factory Alpine rear screens connected to an Alpine DVD changer, Panasonic Digital TV and the standard amp in the boot. I got an official Ferrari Clarion NX504E off ebay which is getting on for 10 years old now and already outdated but it has the Ferrari logo on startup which I like and it's still pretty decent even without Apple Carplay. It came with the Ferrari can-bus plug and play adaptor to retain all the controls as before and there is one other wire (blue) that needs connecting to send a can-bus signal to power up the amp. The head unit has lots of inputs and outputs so I managed to get the DVD changer working with it and the rear screens as well as an updated DVB tuner (not that it is likely to ever be used) and another input for something like a mini Super NES for the kids. You can also retain the USB socket above the glovebox with an adaptor and even split it in to 2 USBs if you want another socket.I was going to upgrade the speakers but found once the head unit was installed it drove the factory speakers much better and sounds good enough for me (I'm no audiophile). It would do with a sub though for a better all round sound. (I don't have the HiFi upgrade in my car).
One bit of advice I would add is find someone that's done an FF before (Or a California - it's the same Chrysler head unit/fitment), most of the lower dash has to come out and there are a couple of almost inaccessible bolts upper centre dash that need to be removed for the fitting procedure. The fitters need a bit of knowledge about where and how to get to these otherwise they could end up scratching thier heads for a while.
As 21ATS says, the hardest bit is getting to everything to do it. I took the carpets out too so had access to all the modules which are under the seats and I was able to run wires back and forth under the carpets. I'm pretty pleased with the result as all the original media spec of the car works using an updated head unit with decent sat nav and bluetooth connectivity etc.
Just back from a weekend in Clitheroe where the kids watched a DVD on the way there and back whilst I got to enjoy the drive
If anyone needs any advice on doing it themselves send me a message and I'll be happy to help...
I've also had both, I had a 2014 FF and now have a 2018 Lusso. As has already been said the interior and infotainment is dated in the FF, although that can be upgraded to resolve it. I bought the FF so that we had a "fun" car that we could use at weekends and take the family and Labradour. Once my son was about 10 or so he didn't like long journeys in the back of the 911 anymore. I agree that I think the FF looks a bit better overall, although I prefer the back of the Lusso, but that's just me. The big difference I noticed in the Lusso is the amount of road/tyre noise that get transmitted through to the cabin. It's not Range Rover quiet but is quiet enough that we use it for long trips now, Scotland, South of France, Skiing. The FF was just a bit too loud to make those trips comfortable, so we only did one and then reverted to just using it for short trips. The Lusso we've done 11 000 miles in the last 2 years now. I'd say it probably depends what you're planning to use it for and how important the ferrari warranty /servicing is to you. For me the quieter cabin was the main driver and it meant that we could use the car for those long trips.
As an FF owner I agree with the cabin noise component of the reply above.
I've just passed 10,000 miles in the last 11 months and I find it tiring if in traffic or on long journeys.
I've added soundproofing to the boot and rear seat area which has helped but I think the main culprit is exhaust noise. Not volume, but pitch, resonance or drone.
Don't get me wrong, I adore the way my car sounds, but it comes at a cost if you actually use it daily.
To that end I have a pair of lusso silencers sat in my garage awaiting fitment. I'll report back once they're on and if they make any difference.
I've just passed 10,000 miles in the last 11 months and I find it tiring if in traffic or on long journeys.
I've added soundproofing to the boot and rear seat area which has helped but I think the main culprit is exhaust noise. Not volume, but pitch, resonance or drone.
Don't get me wrong, I adore the way my car sounds, but it comes at a cost if you actually use it daily.
To that end I have a pair of lusso silencers sat in my garage awaiting fitment. I'll report back once they're on and if they make any difference.
21ATS said:
I've added soundproofing to the boot and rear seat area which has helped but I think the main culprit is exhaust noise. Not volume, but pitch, resonance or drone.
Don't get me wrong, I adore the way my car sounds, but it comes at a cost if you actually use it daily.
I have an early FF and I don’t have this problem. The FF’s cabin is quieter than the F12’s but there is a sort of ‘hollow’ and undamped sound to the cabin. We don’t suffer too much though as the roads where we live are super smooth so tyre noise and resonance is minimal. Don't get me wrong, I adore the way my car sounds, but it comes at a cost if you actually use it daily.
I also don’t find the noise tiring on long journeys. In fact, the FF is the best car I’ve ever had for long trips. It’s continent crushing in its ability but I suspect it really comes into its own at the higher cruising speeds on the continent where sustained speeds above 100mph are possible and where exhaust and tyre noise is drowned out by wind noise.
Edited by ANOpax on Tuesday 15th August 20:59
ANOpax said:
I have an early FF and I don’t have this problem. The FF’s cabin is quieter than the F12’s but there is a sort of ‘hollow’ and undamped sound to the cabin. We don’t suffer too much though as the roads where we live are super smooth so tyre noise and resonance is minimal.
I also don’t find the noise tiring on long journeys. In fact, the FF is the best car I’ve ever had for long trips. It’s continent crushing in its ability but I suspect it really comes into its own at the higher cruising speeds on the continent where sustained speeds above 100mph are possible and where exhaust and tyre noise is drowned out by wind noise.
I think the continental road surfaces help you a great deal in this respect.I also don’t find the noise tiring on long journeys. In fact, the FF is the best car I’ve ever had for long trips. It’s continent crushing in its ability but I suspect it really comes into its own at the higher cruising speeds on the continent where sustained speeds above 100mph are possible and where exhaust and tyre noise is drowned out by wind noise.
I'm not the first to mention the droning. Chris Harris cited it as an issue with the car he owned as did Harry Metcalfe on a 2000 mile road trip to the South of France.
The interesting thing is, not everyone seems to hear it, so it could be a very personal issue.
For me the biggest issue is in crawling, heavy traffic. There's a deep resonance/drone in a 500 rpm rev band at around 1200 rpm. So if I happen to be stuck in traffic for a period of time (30-45 minutes+) I end up with a headache.
My exhaust experiment is aimed at that rev band.
Very interesting, please do report back on the Lusso silencers mod.
I now have the Kenwood unit and am calling the Croydon outfit you mentioned tomorrow to get an appointment to get it fitted.
I did Bilbao to Kent in one day (some 850 miles) in the FF in April at age 46 and found it to be pretty comfortable. I did have my AirPods Pro with me and alternated between bluetooth into the std stereo and noise cancelling on the AirPods.
I now have the Kenwood unit and am calling the Croydon outfit you mentioned tomorrow to get an appointment to get it fitted.
I did Bilbao to Kent in one day (some 850 miles) in the FF in April at age 46 and found it to be pretty comfortable. I did have my AirPods Pro with me and alternated between bluetooth into the std stereo and noise cancelling on the AirPods.
I have a 2012 FF and have been to the Alps and back as well as numerous other UK road trips four up, and with the windows up, it is as quiet as a mouse, you couldn’t tell the engine was on at a legal cruise speed . Is it a tyre issue? I run P Zeros (not by choice), do people with Michelin PS4S’s have more noise?
On the looks, I prefer the less fussy look of the FF. I also do wonder whether they will end up in a 550/575 type position where the earlier is more liked for being a bit more raw.
On the looks, I prefer the less fussy look of the FF. I also do wonder whether they will end up in a 550/575 type position where the earlier is more liked for being a bit more raw.
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