Has car theft increased - how to stop it?
Discussion
Just reading the other thread about the poor chap who keeps having tooled-up thieves turning up at his home to take his car. I've read a few newspaper articles about car theft becoming a big crime once again.
I feel like car theft started to drop off in the 90s after Ford stopped making desirable cars (anyone remember the statistic for how many Sierra Cosworths were being stolen?) and that fall continued into the 2000s. Fast forward late 2010s and it has picked up again. People are buying Faraday bags for their keys, fitting trackers, etc etc
If you were the police / authorities / politicians - how could it be stopped? Why has it made a comeback as a crime which was appearing to be dying off?
I feel like car theft started to drop off in the 90s after Ford stopped making desirable cars (anyone remember the statistic for how many Sierra Cosworths were being stolen?) and that fall continued into the 2000s. Fast forward late 2010s and it has picked up again. People are buying Faraday bags for their keys, fitting trackers, etc etc
If you were the police / authorities / politicians - how could it be stopped? Why has it made a comeback as a crime which was appearing to be dying off?
The reason for the uptick in thefts is pretty straight forward there are no police to catch them.
The police have been defunded to the point of near irrelevance. The police if they get a sniff that an asset is insured just don't engage they seem to think insurance is a replacement for the need to police crime. Of course they are always handily available to pull you for doing 33 in a 30...
The streets on a night time belong to criminals. Even 13 plus years ago when my Mrs worked in the local force control room there were only 1 or 2 cars patrolling the whole district. The TV shows give the impression that the streets are under control the reality is that it's a night time free for all with almost no resources.
The police have been defunded to the point of near irrelevance. The police if they get a sniff that an asset is insured just don't engage they seem to think insurance is a replacement for the need to police crime. Of course they are always handily available to pull you for doing 33 in a 30...
The streets on a night time belong to criminals. Even 13 plus years ago when my Mrs worked in the local force control room there were only 1 or 2 cars patrolling the whole district. The TV shows give the impression that the streets are under control the reality is that it's a night time free for all with almost no resources.
From my limited understanding, there are several reasons why it has exploded over last 5-10 years
1. Countries in Africa continent and Eastern Europe is where some high end modes end up. Lots more cash there than compared to many years ago. Funnily enough a few cars ( rather suvs) from Brampton area (Toronto) end up in Nigeria.
2. Drug debts - low level scum get caught with drugs and now need a way to pay it off
3. Availability of cars- more cars on roads than ever, meaning there is always a market for parts
4. Crash for cash - fake accidents etc, buy back cheap or from copart and then “rebuild” car from stolen parts and you have made yourself a tidy profit
The problem is no one really cars. Cars makers can make it harder to steal cars just go back to older tech, forget all this keyless bs.
Police have limited resources, thanks to the government.
Its all the hard working folk who get it in the neck. If you are criminal you are treated like royalty.
The day we get very tough on crime, things will change.
1. Countries in Africa continent and Eastern Europe is where some high end modes end up. Lots more cash there than compared to many years ago. Funnily enough a few cars ( rather suvs) from Brampton area (Toronto) end up in Nigeria.
2. Drug debts - low level scum get caught with drugs and now need a way to pay it off
3. Availability of cars- more cars on roads than ever, meaning there is always a market for parts
4. Crash for cash - fake accidents etc, buy back cheap or from copart and then “rebuild” car from stolen parts and you have made yourself a tidy profit
The problem is no one really cars. Cars makers can make it harder to steal cars just go back to older tech, forget all this keyless bs.
Police have limited resources, thanks to the government.
Its all the hard working folk who get it in the neck. If you are criminal you are treated like royalty.
The day we get very tough on crime, things will change.
Loads of articles saying that car crime has virtually been decriminalised now 
Maybe a 1% chance of getting a result.
Locally a bunch of residents have had to get together to fund a private security patrol to drive round their estate all night. Plus pay to have ANPR and Cctv fitted.
Loads of us can't afford to do that though. That's what our taxes are supposed to pay for already.
Maybe a 1% chance of getting a result.
Locally a bunch of residents have had to get together to fund a private security patrol to drive round their estate all night. Plus pay to have ANPR and Cctv fitted.
Loads of us can't afford to do that though. That's what our taxes are supposed to pay for already.
Whataguy said:
Locally a bunch of residents have had to get together to fund a private security patrol to drive round their estate all night. Plus pay to have ANPR and Cctv fitted.
Loads of us can't afford to do that though. That's what our taxes are supposed to pay for already.
Thinking about it though... with the state of outsourcing being what it is, most tax gets spent by handing it over to firms who provide contracts to the government. That's going into the pockets of the guys living in gated communities buying £100k cars. So this is their struggle having ripped off the public and taken all their money to provide expensive services they are having to payout for extra security. Loads of us can't afford to do that though. That's what our taxes are supposed to pay for already.
Surely its more to do with it being a difficult one to resolve.
Its easy to get away with, I would imagine that by the time most people report the car stolen, its been a few hours since its gone, if you put a set of cloned plates on it, then its not getting picked up by ANPR, wear gloves and a mask and no way of identifying the person that took it on CCTV.
So how much time should police spend on looking for a car that's likely either been burnt out, stripped for parts and crushed, or shipped abroad.
Its easy to get away with, I would imagine that by the time most people report the car stolen, its been a few hours since its gone, if you put a set of cloned plates on it, then its not getting picked up by ANPR, wear gloves and a mask and no way of identifying the person that took it on CCTV.
So how much time should police spend on looking for a car that's likely either been burnt out, stripped for parts and crushed, or shipped abroad.
Smurfsarepeopletoo said:
Surely its more to do with it being a difficult one to resolve.
Its easy to get away with, I would imagine that by the time most people report the car stolen, its been a few hours since its gone, if you put a set of cloned plates on it, then its not getting picked up by ANPR, wear gloves and a mask and no way of identifying the person that took it on CCTV.
So how much time should police spend on looking for a car that's likely either been burnt out, stripped for parts and crushed, or shipped abroad.
Are you saying the ebb and flow of car crime is a natural phenomenon not influenced by things like the state of policing or the economy? Why did it appear to drop off during the 2000s? Its easy to get away with, I would imagine that by the time most people report the car stolen, its been a few hours since its gone, if you put a set of cloned plates on it, then its not getting picked up by ANPR, wear gloves and a mask and no way of identifying the person that took it on CCTV.
So how much time should police spend on looking for a car that's likely either been burnt out, stripped for parts and crushed, or shipped abroad.
There were 108,542 motor vehicle thefts in England and Wales in 2021/22. This was a jump over the previous years 89,165 although the lockdowns of 2020/21 probably had some impact here.
In 2002/03 there were 306,947 so the current figures are significantly lower than 20 years ago.
However, the lowest figures were in 2013/14 when there were 70,053 thefts. Vehicle crime has been slowly increasing since then (2020/21 excepted).
In summary, car thefts are higher than they were 10 years ago but nothing like they were 20 years ago.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/303551/motor-v...
In 2002/03 there were 306,947 so the current figures are significantly lower than 20 years ago.
However, the lowest figures were in 2013/14 when there were 70,053 thefts. Vehicle crime has been slowly increasing since then (2020/21 excepted).
In summary, car thefts are higher than they were 10 years ago but nothing like they were 20 years ago.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/303551/motor-v...
You can also steal a car in surprisingly easy ways. When was the last time you heard of someone being burgled for their keys?
Many people don't know about or protect against relay thefts for one and many keys still don't go to sleep. Accessible obd ports by windows to program a key are another, more elaborate one. Then there's things like the lexus where the ecu is by the wheel arch liner so they undo 2 screws, unplug yours, plug theirs in and off they go (so I'm told by someone who has his lexus pinched).
Desirable ones are exported on stolen to order and less desirable ones just get stripped for parts to punt on ebay, Facebook etc as there is no recourse and dave can make a packet trading stolen parts and paying no tax. Look at these thefts of front ends of cars in car parks! Probably end up buying your own bumper back off face ache to get your car running again!
Many people don't know about or protect against relay thefts for one and many keys still don't go to sleep. Accessible obd ports by windows to program a key are another, more elaborate one. Then there's things like the lexus where the ecu is by the wheel arch liner so they undo 2 screws, unplug yours, plug theirs in and off they go (so I'm told by someone who has his lexus pinched).
Desirable ones are exported on stolen to order and less desirable ones just get stripped for parts to punt on ebay, Facebook etc as there is no recourse and dave can make a packet trading stolen parts and paying no tax. Look at these thefts of front ends of cars in car parks! Probably end up buying your own bumper back off face ache to get your car running again!
ralphrj said:
There were 108,542 motor vehicle thefts in England and Wales in 2021/22. This was a jump over the previous years 89,165 although the lockdowns of 2020/21 probably had some impact here.
In 2002/03 there were 306,947 so the current figures are significantly lower than 20 years ago.
However, the lowest figures were in 2013/14 when there were 70,053 thefts. Vehicle crime has been slowly increasing since then (2020/21 excepted).
In summary, car thefts are higher than they were 10 years ago but nothing like they were 20 years ago.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/303551/motor-v...
I guess the media hype has some impact on how you feel about things but I had the feeling it was decreasing and then ramped back up. In 2002/03 there were 306,947 so the current figures are significantly lower than 20 years ago.
However, the lowest figures were in 2013/14 when there were 70,053 thefts. Vehicle crime has been slowly increasing since then (2020/21 excepted).
In summary, car thefts are higher than they were 10 years ago but nothing like they were 20 years ago.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/303551/motor-v...
Can the statistics show what kind of cars are being stolen because I know in the old days a lot of older cars were being taken due to weaker security, new cars were being left alone.
ingenieur said:
I guess the media hype has some impact on how you feel about things but I had the feeling it was decreasing and then ramped back up.
Can the statistics show what kind of cars are being stolen because I know in the old days a lot of older cars were being taken due to weaker security, new cars were being left alone.
I think that there is often a difference between fear of a crime and likelihood of being victim of a crime. However, car thefts have increased by more than 50% from the low point so it is undeniably on the increase. On the other hand it has dropped so significantly to that low point that even a 50%+ increase means that it is still far less prevalent than 20 years ago.Can the statistics show what kind of cars are being stolen because I know in the old days a lot of older cars were being taken due to weaker security, new cars were being left alone.
I don't think I can drill into the above data to get make of car stolen. However, google suggests that the top 10 stolen cars in 2022 were:
1. Ford Fiesta
2. Land Rover Range Rover
3. Ford Focus
4. VW Golf
5. Land Rover Discovery
6. BMW 3 series
7. Mercedes C-Class
8. Vauxhall Corsa
9. Vauxhall Astra
10. Mercedes E-Class
The google figures can from vehicles reported stolen to DVLA. The earlier figures are reported crimes to the Police. Approximately twice as many thefts were reported to the Police as DVLA. One logical reason for this is thefts of vehicles other than cars (i.e. motorbikes).
I'd be interested to know how many of these thefts in current day have come from some sort of violence beforehand as opposed to say 20 years ago, I'm only 38 so can't overly remember too much from then, but i am sure people weren't coming at others with angle grinders and other heavy handed equipment as means of threatening someone for their car keys or alike.
Bottom line is that even if these sorts are caught, the sentences are laughable, so in their eyes the rewards outweigh the risks involved.
Bottom line is that even if these sorts are caught, the sentences are laughable, so in their eyes the rewards outweigh the risks involved.
Worth adding that the disparity between the number of them sold vs the number being stolen shows how much Range Rovers or Discoverys are targeted.
The other cars are more or less the most popular ones in the UK so it is not a surprise to see them on the list.
The absence of cars that have been big sellers in the very most recent years (e.g. Tesla Model 3/Y, Mercedes A-Class, Nissan Qashqai, VW Polo, Ford Kuga, Kia Sportage, Hyundai Tucson and Mini) would suggest that older cars are still more likely to be stolen than newer ones.
The other cars are more or less the most popular ones in the UK so it is not a surprise to see them on the list.
The absence of cars that have been big sellers in the very most recent years (e.g. Tesla Model 3/Y, Mercedes A-Class, Nissan Qashqai, VW Polo, Ford Kuga, Kia Sportage, Hyundai Tucson and Mini) would suggest that older cars are still more likely to be stolen than newer ones.
Lets put it in perspective. Car theft has increased slightly after years of falls. Last year was still lower than it was in 2009 or any time in recent history before that:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/303551/motor-v...
(yes the scale appeared to be messed up, I don't think there was really 100 million car thefts in England and Wales last year).
They look to have risen maybe 30% this year compared to last, which puts them about where they were in 2006. Obviously any rise is a concern in case it's the start of a long-term trend, but I don't think it's time to panic yet.
Regarding the reason for the recent climb, I'd imagine it's a combination of high second-hand car prices, underfunding (and over-politicisation) of police, the fact we're in a recession in all but name, and the fact that an awful lot of cars currently on the road have shockingly insecure keyless entry and go setups which can be defeated with a simple repeater unit.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/303551/motor-v...
(yes the scale appeared to be messed up, I don't think there was really 100 million car thefts in England and Wales last year).
They look to have risen maybe 30% this year compared to last, which puts them about where they were in 2006. Obviously any rise is a concern in case it's the start of a long-term trend, but I don't think it's time to panic yet.
Regarding the reason for the recent climb, I'd imagine it's a combination of high second-hand car prices, underfunding (and over-politicisation) of police, the fact we're in a recession in all but name, and the fact that an awful lot of cars currently on the road have shockingly insecure keyless entry and go setups which can be defeated with a simple repeater unit.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 27th June 08:59
There is a multitude of factors really.
1) The tools now being used in some theft methods were simply never designed to fall into the hands they now find themselves in (rightly or wrongly the locksmith side of the industry does need greater control).
2) The tools being developed by some of more criminal side of the locksmith industry definitely are an issue.
3) Manufacturers failing to adequately defend the ability to create keys without authorisation, the lack of adequate network protection on Canbus (which is being replaced by Flexray and Ethernet to some degree), ironically the push for fancy lighting systems and other tech that has allowed canbus wiring nearer the surface of cars and lack of hardware (i.e. a physical key blade)
4) For the UK at least lack of enforcement when it comes to property due to lack of resource
5) Overseas interest in specific models
6) Buying habits of particular vehicle types like SUVs
7) Insurers not being more bullish against the car industry to improve security
8) Justice system being excessively soft, unfortunately if they just steal a vehicle it is a summary only offence, therefore is magistrate only and they don't create legal precedent in a Magistrate court. i.e. the law itself needs to be made tougher by Parliament and Lords fundamentally.
I think the scariest ones has to be the Alfa and Toyota/Lexus thefts where they are using the canbus plugs to override the network allowing it to unlock and start. https://www.techspot.com/news/98245-car-thieves-us...
1) The tools now being used in some theft methods were simply never designed to fall into the hands they now find themselves in (rightly or wrongly the locksmith side of the industry does need greater control).
2) The tools being developed by some of more criminal side of the locksmith industry definitely are an issue.
3) Manufacturers failing to adequately defend the ability to create keys without authorisation, the lack of adequate network protection on Canbus (which is being replaced by Flexray and Ethernet to some degree), ironically the push for fancy lighting systems and other tech that has allowed canbus wiring nearer the surface of cars and lack of hardware (i.e. a physical key blade)
4) For the UK at least lack of enforcement when it comes to property due to lack of resource
5) Overseas interest in specific models
6) Buying habits of particular vehicle types like SUVs
7) Insurers not being more bullish against the car industry to improve security
8) Justice system being excessively soft, unfortunately if they just steal a vehicle it is a summary only offence, therefore is magistrate only and they don't create legal precedent in a Magistrate court. i.e. the law itself needs to be made tougher by Parliament and Lords fundamentally.
I think the scariest ones has to be the Alfa and Toyota/Lexus thefts where they are using the canbus plugs to override the network allowing it to unlock and start. https://www.techspot.com/news/98245-car-thieves-us...
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 27th June 09:20
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 27th June 09:24
I also wonder whether or not these statistics are subject to political manipulation to create certain impressions through reclassification and that sort of thing. They're always doing it. Unemployment was famously lowered by splitting those without work into categories of unemployed with only a fraction of the original number being declared as unemployed. The others being shifted off into other categories like disability / not looking for work.
tvrfan007 said:
You can also steal a car in surprisingly easy ways. When was the last time you heard of someone being burgled for their keys?
Many people don't know about or protect against relay thefts for one and many keys still don't go to sleep. Accessible obd ports by windows to program a key are another, more elaborate one. Then there's things like the lexus where the ecu is by the wheel arch liner so they undo 2 screws, unplug yours, plug theirs in and off they go (so I'm told by someone who has his lexus pinched).
Desirable ones are exported on stolen to order and less desirable ones just get stripped for parts to punt on ebay, Facebook etc as there is no recourse and dave can make a packet trading stolen parts and paying no tax. Look at these thefts of front ends of cars in car parks! Probably end up buying your own bumper back off face ache to get your car running again!
A lot of people with keyless still don't even do the easiest thing of buying a steering wheel lock. I know they can be removed but a car that's likely to be stolen is less likely with one of those on it.Many people don't know about or protect against relay thefts for one and many keys still don't go to sleep. Accessible obd ports by windows to program a key are another, more elaborate one. Then there's things like the lexus where the ecu is by the wheel arch liner so they undo 2 screws, unplug yours, plug theirs in and off they go (so I'm told by someone who has his lexus pinched).
Desirable ones are exported on stolen to order and less desirable ones just get stripped for parts to punt on ebay, Facebook etc as there is no recourse and dave can make a packet trading stolen parts and paying no tax. Look at these thefts of front ends of cars in car parks! Probably end up buying your own bumper back off face ache to get your car running again!
But as we all know if they want it, they'll probably take it.
ingenieur said:
I also wonder whether or not these statistics are subject to political manipulation to create certain impressions through reclassification and that sort of thing. They're always doing it. Unemployment was famously lowered by splitting those without work into categories of unemployed with only a fraction of the original number being declared as unemployed. The others being shifted off into other categories like disability / not looking for work.
It's an interesting question, but I can't really see any reason to believe it's the case here beyond general conspiracy theoryism. I think the Government has rather more pressing things to try to brush under the carpet at the moment than a slight rise in car thefts!There is always a perception that crime is rising, when in reality the vast majority of types of crime have been on a general downwards trend for decades. If twenty types of crime drop dramatically and one rises slightly in a particular timeframe, you can bet that the tabloid media wont mention the 20...
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 27th June 09:36
kambites said:
ingenieur said:
I also wonder whether or not these statistics are subject to political manipulation to create certain impressions through reclassification and that sort of thing. They're always doing it. Unemployment was famously lowered by splitting those without work into categories of unemployed with only a fraction of the original number being declared as unemployed. The others being shifted off into other categories like disability / not looking for work.
It's an interesting question, but I can't really see any reason to believe it's the case here beyond general conspiracy theoryism. I think the Government has rather more pressing things to try to brush under the carpet at the moment than a slight rise in car thefts!There is always a perception that crime is rising, when in reality the vast majority of types of crime have been on a general downwards trend for decades. If twenty types of crime drop dramatically and one rises slightly in a particular timeframe, you can bet that the tabloid media wont mention the 20...
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 27th June 09:36
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