997.1 versus alternatives…
Discussion
GTRene said:
997.1 GT2 530hp on rear wheels, chip it to the 620hp from RS level, big fun.
but, a base 997.1 Turbo 480hp, you can also give it some extra boost to say 600hp or bigger turbo's and so on 800?
so not fast? hm, you can make them faster, even as fast as some modern sh+t cars I guess.
Thanks for this, i should clarify tho. I’m looking at non turbo ones so the 350bhp variant but, a base 997.1 Turbo 480hp, you can also give it some extra boost to say 600hp or bigger turbo's and so on 800?
so not fast? hm, you can make them faster, even as fast as some modern sh+t cars I guess.
They're quick enough... What's your metric? On track the 355bhp version is as quick as most stuff, driver depending.
On the road, there's enough grunt, I find, for fairly easy driving and speeds.
If you're used to 500bhp plus then it'll probably feel slow, but if it's uber saloons that you're comparing to, it'll feel quick.
There was someone on 911uk who had a SLK55 and whilst on paper was quicker, they said the 911 felt significantly faster, despite being down on power.
I've had my C2S for a few years now, and they really do get under your skin!
On the road, there's enough grunt, I find, for fairly easy driving and speeds.
If you're used to 500bhp plus then it'll probably feel slow, but if it's uber saloons that you're comparing to, it'll feel quick.
There was someone on 911uk who had a SLK55 and whilst on paper was quicker, they said the 911 felt significantly faster, despite being down on power.
I've had my C2S for a few years now, and they really do get under your skin!
I found, compared to an Exige, not special, compare to other sports cars, pretty special IMHO.
But still can do a 4 hour drive without being dead.
I had a Z3M with the same 3.2 straight 6 IIRC... Cracking engine, but did feel like it needed to be worked. Obviously, the Z3M was terrible dynamically, so the E36 Evo will be a lot closer, but the 997 does feel like an event.
If you're nearby, you be welcome to have a drive and poke around!
But still can do a 4 hour drive without being dead.
I had a Z3M with the same 3.2 straight 6 IIRC... Cracking engine, but did feel like it needed to be worked. Obviously, the Z3M was terrible dynamically, so the E36 Evo will be a lot closer, but the 997 does feel like an event.
If you're nearby, you be welcome to have a drive and poke around!
V1nce Fox said:
Coming from an e36 evo so similar weight, about 310bhp but mostly bikes.
Just wonder how “special” one will feel.
ah, the non turbo's, there are also GT3 415hpJust wonder how “special” one will feel.
but I guess you mean the carrera 2 S versions 3.8 and 355hp, were there not also powerpacks or something for those? and then 385hp?
say this GT3 looks almost cheap... looks good, just under 80k and just 22k miles...
https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/porsche-sales/vehicle/997...
https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/porsche-sales/vehicle/997...
My wife was looking for a 997.1 convertible.
Settled on a BMW m235i (she was looking for an M240, but this one turned up locally at a great price and condition). On paper, it seems performance figures are similar for these as the early edition 997. The BMW certainly feels very sharp, and very quick with 320bhp and supposedly sub 5seconds 0-60. Similar to a base spec 911. She drove both, she said the 911 has great presence, a satisfying drive, fwltnquuck, but felt older and less nimble than the BMW.
I unserstanf the m235i/240i coupe in either auto or manual form is an even better car, its 150kg lighter than the soft top amd really gives the M2 a run for its money, 4 usable seats and decent boot too. Really good used value cars, you can get a 10-15 yr younger car than an equivalent price 997, and you know you are in a more modern car..
I guess it's just not a 911 though, but it's an impressive alternative.
Settled on a BMW m235i (she was looking for an M240, but this one turned up locally at a great price and condition). On paper, it seems performance figures are similar for these as the early edition 997. The BMW certainly feels very sharp, and very quick with 320bhp and supposedly sub 5seconds 0-60. Similar to a base spec 911. She drove both, she said the 911 has great presence, a satisfying drive, fwltnquuck, but felt older and less nimble than the BMW.
I unserstanf the m235i/240i coupe in either auto or manual form is an even better car, its 150kg lighter than the soft top amd really gives the M2 a run for its money, 4 usable seats and decent boot too. Really good used value cars, you can get a 10-15 yr younger car than an equivalent price 997, and you know you are in a more modern car..
I guess it's just not a 911 though, but it's an impressive alternative.
Also to note, the porkers are very sensitive to geometry and suspension components being worn.
They can feel a bit out to sea and floaty when not setup. When setup, they're really driving on rails! I had a great day at Brands Hatch in the wet!
ETA: if the car has PASM then put £1k to the side for a DSC suspension controller, makes a subtle but massive difference to the handling, and turns the PASM system from meh to great
They can feel a bit out to sea and floaty when not setup. When setup, they're really driving on rails! I had a great day at Brands Hatch in the wet!
ETA: if the car has PASM then put £1k to the side for a DSC suspension controller, makes a subtle but massive difference to the handling, and turns the PASM system from meh to great
Edited by RemarkLima on Thursday 29th June 07:07
RemarkLima said:
Also to note, the porkers are very sensitive to geometry and suspension components being worn.
They can feel a bit out to sea and floaty when not setup. When setup, they're really driving on rails! I had a great day at Brands Hatch in the wet!
Easily fixed with a trip to Chris at Center (sic) Gravity, highly recommended.They can feel a bit out to sea and floaty when not setup. When setup, they're really driving on rails! I had a great day at Brands Hatch in the wet!
A manual 997 (especially the .1, the sound is so much better) is perfect on the road. It’s got more than enough power without feeling the need to resort to crazy illegal speeds.
I’ve got much faster track cars and possibly a 997 would feel a bit slow for you there but on the road the 997.1 is the sweet spot for enjoyment, they’re nimble, not too big and the pre-electric steering is legendary. Buy an early one at a good price, mentally factor in a Hartech rebuild at some point (which you may never actually need) and you wint go wrong.
RemarkLima said:
They're quick enough... What's your metric? On track the 355bhp version is as quick as most stuff, driver depending.
On the road, there's enough grunt, I find, for fairly easy driving and speeds.
If you're used to 500bhp plus then it'll probably feel slow, but if it's uber saloons that you're comparing to, it'll feel quick.
There was someone on 911uk who had a SLK55 and whilst on paper was quicker, they said the 911 felt significantly faster, despite being down on power.
I've had my C2S for a few years now, and they really do get under your skin!
^This. On the road, there's enough grunt, I find, for fairly easy driving and speeds.
If you're used to 500bhp plus then it'll probably feel slow, but if it's uber saloons that you're comparing to, it'll feel quick.
There was someone on 911uk who had a SLK55 and whilst on paper was quicker, they said the 911 felt significantly faster, despite being down on power.
I've had my C2S for a few years now, and they really do get under your skin!
RemarkLima said:
I found, compared to an Exige, not special, compare to other sports cars, pretty special IMHO.
But still can do a 4 hour drive without being dead.
I had a Z3M with the same 3.2 straight 6 IIRC... Cracking engine, but did feel like it needed to be worked. Obviously, the Z3M was terrible dynamically, so the E36 Evo will be a lot closer, but the 997 does feel like an event.
If you're nearby, you be welcome to have a drive and poke around!
Very kind offer, many thanks. I'm in the middle of nowhere on the south coast though But still can do a 4 hour drive without being dead.
I had a Z3M with the same 3.2 straight 6 IIRC... Cracking engine, but did feel like it needed to be worked. Obviously, the Z3M was terrible dynamically, so the E36 Evo will be a lot closer, but the 997 does feel like an event.
If you're nearby, you be welcome to have a drive and poke around!
Lot of very useful perspectives on here, thanks all. I think because it's potentially the biggest car purchase I'd ever have made and would theoretically be my "dream car" I guess my question is will the performance feel special enough. I love the shape, style, interior etc already though.
Really like them in silver, dark grey or black, ideally with the lobster claw wheels
If you're talking about road use then the performance definitely feels special, from the growl when you start it, the hollow induction howl as it revs combined with the meaty amount of torque from low down in the rev range and the quick pick up.
Add in a silky smooth, but purposefully sighted gear change and the steering which everyone raves about, and in my view it's a truly special feeling car.
At the prices 997.1's go for, it's a bargain. Of course some of that is due to fears about bore scoring and IMS bearings. At the risk of starting a barrage of debate, speaking to respected specialists, its a bit overblown and you just need to factor in some savings for the possibility (not certainty) that you will have to do this. It does however mean that you can buy a 997.1 for less than they deserve to cost IMO.
On track is a completely different kettle of fish, but frankly any road going car is going to be utterly humiliated by track focussed lightweights so I don't think that's the issue really.
Add in a silky smooth, but purposefully sighted gear change and the steering which everyone raves about, and in my view it's a truly special feeling car.
At the prices 997.1's go for, it's a bargain. Of course some of that is due to fears about bore scoring and IMS bearings. At the risk of starting a barrage of debate, speaking to respected specialists, its a bit overblown and you just need to factor in some savings for the possibility (not certainty) that you will have to do this. It does however mean that you can buy a 997.1 for less than they deserve to cost IMO.
On track is a completely different kettle of fish, but frankly any road going car is going to be utterly humiliated by track focussed lightweights so I don't think that's the issue really.
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Went from a M2 Competition to a 997.2 C4S and absolutely no comparison (in the Porsche’s favour). The 997 so nimble, agile and tactile after the fast blunt instrument of the M2.
This is where it's difficult to recommend though, as I would say a 997.2 C4S (the first 911 to get the actual Turbo's 4WD system, not a cheaper version) is a much better car than - say - an early 997.1 Carrera.They are not especially quick. My dad had a 997.1 Carrera S when I had an M3 CSL back in the day, and the CSL felt noticeably quicker to me, and the M3 is hardly mental.
You make a lot of cars feel faster by making them a bit louder! All performance is relatively and ultimately you get used to it. Then it's normally time to move onto something else. Personally, I think if you have a great handling car, with confidence inspiring brakes and an evocative soundtrack, then outright performance falls to the bottom of the priority list.
At one point I had a 182 Trophy and Huracan Performante. I never once felt the Clio was slow.
I’ve got a MY05 SLK 55 AMG (360 bhp) and a 997.1 C2 manual. They’re similar in terms of pace with the C2 perhaps better on throttle response. The SLK is much easier to just jump in and drive fast and handling is similar to the C2. The 6 pot front caliper brakes are better in the SLK.
All that said, the 997.1 is just as special and will be a learning curve to understand its foibles, idiosyncrasies and the dynamics of rear engine and RWD.
I like both and have just forked out for cup 2 tyres and Bilstein B6/Techart springs. The SLK will be getting a set of headers and a tune to near 400 bhp.
All that said, the 997.1 is just as special and will be a learning curve to understand its foibles, idiosyncrasies and the dynamics of rear engine and RWD.
I like both and have just forked out for cup 2 tyres and Bilstein B6/Techart springs. The SLK will be getting a set of headers and a tune to near 400 bhp.
V1nce Fox said:
Coming from an e36 evo so similar weight, about 310bhp but mostly bikes.
Just wonder how “special” one will feel.
Outright acceleration won't be that much different to your M3, where they both need revs to really go. But, they will feel very different to drive. The 911 obviously feels like a sports car to sit in, it has much better steering feel and the weight distribution is the opposite to the M3. In my opinion there are 3 main differences compared to front-engined cars:Just wonder how “special” one will feel.
1. At low speed turn-in, like through a chicane (with a little trail braking) you'll be amazed at how fast it can change direction because there isn't weight on the nose.
2. You can accelerate out of corners much earlier and harder because of the weight over the rear wheels
3. Braking - you will be able to brake much harder and later. Because of the rear engine, when you're braking hard the rear wheels are able to do more work compared to a front engined car, which will have most of the weight over the front wheels under braking. In addition, standard Porsche brakes are far superior to BMW's for fade resistance and stopping power.
But remember, hopefully the chances are small but there's always the risk of a £15k engine rebuild on a 997.1, with the 'S' being more prone to needing it.
thelostboy said:
This is where it's difficult to recommend though, as I would say a 997.2 C4S (the first 911 to get the actual Turbo's 4WD system, not a cheaper version) is a much better car than - say - an early 997.1 Carrera.
They are not especially quick. My dad had a 997.1 Carrera S when I had an M3 CSL back in the day, and the CSL felt noticeably quicker to me, and the M3 is hardly mental.
You make a lot of cars feel faster by making them a bit louder! All performance is relatively and ultimately you get used to it. Then it's normally time to move onto something else. Personally, I think if you have a great handling car, with confidence inspiring brakes and an evocative soundtrack, then outright performance falls to the bottom of the priority list.
At one point I had a 182 Trophy and Huracan Performante. I never once felt the Clio was slow.
Being Pistonheads, surely 4WD isn't manly enough and really it should be RWD or go home They are not especially quick. My dad had a 997.1 Carrera S when I had an M3 CSL back in the day, and the CSL felt noticeably quicker to me, and the M3 is hardly mental.
You make a lot of cars feel faster by making them a bit louder! All performance is relatively and ultimately you get used to it. Then it's normally time to move onto something else. Personally, I think if you have a great handling car, with confidence inspiring brakes and an evocative soundtrack, then outright performance falls to the bottom of the priority list.
At one point I had a 182 Trophy and Huracan Performante. I never once felt the Clio was slow.
But it'll depend, I personally prefer the narrow body variants, more of a nod to the older 60s and 70s models rather than the widebody, bespoilered 80s.
But I 100% agree in terms of volume, and there's a "gundo" hack, where you get a 1" or 1.5" pipe welded in to bypass the silencers and then you get a louder and still decent exhaust note. Or get one with a PSE which has a switchable loud and not loud button.
Saying that, if you metric is a Huracan, then everything else will be actually slow in comparison
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