Replacement car input required
Discussion
Dear esteemed PH community
So - a few years ago I wanted a comfy quiet but still quick car, good for cruising motorways and spacious enough for a family. Bought an XF-S. Loved it. Just about big enough to visit parents for a few days with a new born - travel cot, prams, presents, food, baggage etc. Just about filled the car but we did it.
Car stolen off driveway recently and while insurance is working itself out I'm considering options.
I still want some luxury, quiet cabin, nice sound, DAB and USB etc. but I'd like a bit more space. In planning for no.2 I want to be able to fit prams and stuff and have enough room for a big Costco run. Thought of XF sportbrake V6 diesel - seems like decent enough performance, still all the toys etc. but with more space. Combination driving, fair bit around town but also motorways. It's ULEZ compliant so that's not a hinderance, at least not this year.
Never had a diesel before and a friend advises from experience to avoid like the plague - can't get rid of the smell, messy, etc. Anyone with diesel experience care to weigh in? I figure there's still some time before they become a real problem so it's more the experience of owning one I'm interested in.
Alternatives seem few. I do like to keep it small as possible because you don't need most of the parent crap they try to sell you, but there are some things you can't get away from - travel cots for overnight, need space for kids and big shopping runs, etc.
Standard meta seems to be XC-90 but that's a bit big for my new driver wife ; E class is a bit pricey; V90 looks good but a little slow ; On the SUV side 450h seems like the ticket, quiet cabin but options are few and it's pricey too.
So -
1. Any diesel input?
2. Any other options around the 25k mark I might have missed?
Cheers
So - a few years ago I wanted a comfy quiet but still quick car, good for cruising motorways and spacious enough for a family. Bought an XF-S. Loved it. Just about big enough to visit parents for a few days with a new born - travel cot, prams, presents, food, baggage etc. Just about filled the car but we did it.
Car stolen off driveway recently and while insurance is working itself out I'm considering options.
I still want some luxury, quiet cabin, nice sound, DAB and USB etc. but I'd like a bit more space. In planning for no.2 I want to be able to fit prams and stuff and have enough room for a big Costco run. Thought of XF sportbrake V6 diesel - seems like decent enough performance, still all the toys etc. but with more space. Combination driving, fair bit around town but also motorways. It's ULEZ compliant so that's not a hinderance, at least not this year.
Never had a diesel before and a friend advises from experience to avoid like the plague - can't get rid of the smell, messy, etc. Anyone with diesel experience care to weigh in? I figure there's still some time before they become a real problem so it's more the experience of owning one I'm interested in.
Alternatives seem few. I do like to keep it small as possible because you don't need most of the parent crap they try to sell you, but there are some things you can't get away from - travel cots for overnight, need space for kids and big shopping runs, etc.
Standard meta seems to be XC-90 but that's a bit big for my new driver wife ; E class is a bit pricey; V90 looks good but a little slow ; On the SUV side 450h seems like the ticket, quiet cabin but options are few and it's pricey too.
So -
1. Any diesel input?
2. Any other options around the 25k mark I might have missed?
Cheers
I avoided diesel for years for the same reaosns your mate gave, evntualy caving just before Covid.
For a big, practical family car like an XF Sportbrake - unless your buying the 'fast' V8 options then Diesel is simply the best choice.
I've now since owned 2 6 cylinder, reasonably powerful Diesel Mercedes, and not had a single issue with them being a Diesel caveats being - its not used for a town runabout, Its correctly serviced and with the right Mercedes 'low ash' oil.
It takes a good 15 minutes to properly warm up, during whicvh time the mpg is poor.
As to your second point - an E-Class estate. They are brilliant.
For a big, practical family car like an XF Sportbrake - unless your buying the 'fast' V8 options then Diesel is simply the best choice.
I've now since owned 2 6 cylinder, reasonably powerful Diesel Mercedes, and not had a single issue with them being a Diesel caveats being - its not used for a town runabout, Its correctly serviced and with the right Mercedes 'low ash' oil.
It takes a good 15 minutes to properly warm up, during whicvh time the mpg is poor.
As to your second point - an E-Class estate. They are brilliant.
Angrybiker said:
Thanks - how are you finding the messy smelly side of things? Getting into the everything or is it manageable?
I’m not a diesel fan by an stretch, though have owned and loved a 330d back in the late 2000s, unless you plan on snorting the pumps, it shouldn’t be an issue, though I would recommend keeping a box of latex or nitrile gloves in the car. 9/10 you wouldn’t need them, or the forecourt will have some available, but for those times you come across a grim pump with no gloves I’d rather be carrying my own than end up with diesel on my car interior.Modern diesels are surprisingly refined, especially those from premium manufacturers, and even more so the 6 cylinder models.
The pumps can be grim, usually from careless van drivers. If you buy the higher grade fuel, those pumps are usually clean as the van drivers won't touch it. BP Ultimate is the best diesel fuel ime.
How many miles a year do you do? I'd only bother getting one if you do over 12,000 miles a year to really feel the benefit of increased mpg vs the petrol equivalent. Lots of short trips tends to make them unreliable with DPFs and EGRs failing.
Also very important to make sure you get a Euro 6 model so you don't get burned by clean air zones and take a bath when you come to sell. Since you are spending around £25k you should probably be ok avoiding Euro 5's and earlier.
Ideas
Audi A6 Avant 50 TDI Quattro
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303115...
BMW 530d Touring
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306208...
Mercedes E350d Bluetec
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306248...
The pumps can be grim, usually from careless van drivers. If you buy the higher grade fuel, those pumps are usually clean as the van drivers won't touch it. BP Ultimate is the best diesel fuel ime.
How many miles a year do you do? I'd only bother getting one if you do over 12,000 miles a year to really feel the benefit of increased mpg vs the petrol equivalent. Lots of short trips tends to make them unreliable with DPFs and EGRs failing.
Also very important to make sure you get a Euro 6 model so you don't get burned by clean air zones and take a bath when you come to sell. Since you are spending around £25k you should probably be ok avoiding Euro 5's and earlier.
Ideas
Audi A6 Avant 50 TDI Quattro
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303115...
BMW 530d Touring
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306208...
Mercedes E350d Bluetec
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306248...
Edited by georgeyboy12345 on Tuesday 11th July 19:40
georgeyboy12345 said:
Modern diesels are surprisingly refined, especially those from premium manufacturers, and even more so the 6 cylinder models.
The pumps can be grim, usually from careless van drivers. If you buy the higher grade fuel, those pumps are usually clean as the van drivers won't touch it. BP Ultimate is the best diesel fuel ime.
How many miles a year do you do? I'd only bother getting one if you do over 12,000 miles a year to really feel the benefit of increased mpg vs the petrol equivalent. Lots of short trips tends to make them unreliable with DPFs and EGRs failing.
Also very important to make sure you get a Euro 6 model so you don't get burned by clean air zones and take a bath when you come to sell. Since you are spending around £25k you should probably be ok avoiding Euro 5's and earlier.
Ideas
Audi A6 Avant 50 TDI Quattro
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303115...
BMW 530d Touring
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306208...
Mercedes E350d Bluetec
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306248...
I only drive about 7-8k in the mian car, mixture of motorway and suburban. So yeah it doesn't make much sense for that, just there don't seem to be any equivalent petrol models for the sportbrake - or if there are I've not seen any yet on autotrader. It's either the 3l d v6 (where the facelift happened about 2017) or the slower 2.0 petrol (where the facelift happened 2020).The pumps can be grim, usually from careless van drivers. If you buy the higher grade fuel, those pumps are usually clean as the van drivers won't touch it. BP Ultimate is the best diesel fuel ime.
How many miles a year do you do? I'd only bother getting one if you do over 12,000 miles a year to really feel the benefit of increased mpg vs the petrol equivalent. Lots of short trips tends to make them unreliable with DPFs and EGRs failing.
Also very important to make sure you get a Euro 6 model so you don't get burned by clean air zones and take a bath when you come to sell. Since you are spending around £25k you should probably be ok avoiding Euro 5's and earlier.
Ideas
Audi A6 Avant 50 TDI Quattro
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303115...
BMW 530d Touring
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306208...
Mercedes E350d Bluetec
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306248...
Edited by georgeyboy12345 on Tuesday 11th July 19:40
On the alternative models therefore I've been mostly focusing on petrol - but those are nice alternative diesels. On balance petrol for me makes more sense, just I'm amazed I can't find suitably speedy and luxury petrol wagons in the pricerange.
At this moment I'm thiking it might be better to find another 5k and go for a 2020 full facelift 2.0 sportbrake. Or an E43 might be an idea but they've racked up a few miles at this pricepoint.
Edited by Angrybiker on Tuesday 11th July 20:01
As posters above - no mess involved, nearly all stations have gloves next to the pump and I always, have a spare stuffed in the filler recess in case.
Other than that, no mess, smell, stains etc. I do understand the worry as that's what put me off for so long, but honestly it's fine.
I dearly wanted to buy the E350 CGI estate but - you see if you can find one for sale. They simply don't exist. Jag didn't do any petrol sport brakes until the facelift. BMW were the best at selling petrol 5 series but you pay a LOT for them as they are well sought after.
I don't do big miles, but I don't do much/any short daily round the houses stuff in mine either. It's longer trips a coupe of times a week maybe.
I would also agree that the only diesels I'm at all interested in are big, smooth, 6 cylinder offerings like my Merc or the Jaguar as you've seen. They are worlds away from the familiar 4 pot Golf tdi - the natural balance of a 6 cylinder makes the feel fundamentally different.
For large executive type cars, if your not buying the fast sporty V8 one then it really does make sense. The other thing I particularly loved about my E350 estate was not that it was particularly economical, but with it's huge fuel tank it had a massive range, 600+ miles wasn't that hard between full ups. Makes a brilliant holiday / road trip car.
Other than that, no mess, smell, stains etc. I do understand the worry as that's what put me off for so long, but honestly it's fine.
georgeyboy12345 said:
How many miles a year do you do? I'd only bother getting one if you do over 12,000 miles a year to really feel the benefit of increased mpg vs the petrol equivalent.
I had a smaller budget but however I believe the same is true for anyone buying anything in this class that's more than a few years old - its not about *choosing* diesel, but rather that there's not really any other alternatives! I dearly wanted to buy the E350 CGI estate but - you see if you can find one for sale. They simply don't exist. Jag didn't do any petrol sport brakes until the facelift. BMW were the best at selling petrol 5 series but you pay a LOT for them as they are well sought after.
I don't do big miles, but I don't do much/any short daily round the houses stuff in mine either. It's longer trips a coupe of times a week maybe.
I would also agree that the only diesels I'm at all interested in are big, smooth, 6 cylinder offerings like my Merc or the Jaguar as you've seen. They are worlds away from the familiar 4 pot Golf tdi - the natural balance of a 6 cylinder makes the feel fundamentally different.
For large executive type cars, if your not buying the fast sporty V8 one then it really does make sense. The other thing I particularly loved about my E350 estate was not that it was particularly economical, but with it's huge fuel tank it had a massive range, 600+ miles wasn't that hard between full ups. Makes a brilliant holiday / road trip car.
Edited by snotrag on Tuesday 11th July 21:33
Edited by snotrag on Tuesday 11th July 21:34
Edited by snotrag on Tuesday 11th July 21:36
Angrybiker said:
biggbn said:
Lexus rx450h. Job jobbed.
Yeah the quiet cabin and sound systems appeal, and reliability, my father has driven them for 30 years. Only downside of the 450h is the sparse toys and disconnected driving style with the superlight steering.I don’t think I could go diesel, I just don’t do the miles, so the family shuttle will almost certainly be a hybrid next. If a diesel worked for short journeys I’d consider one as the engines work well in big cars like that.
A friend is running an XC90 until it breaks. It’s getting expensive but not too bad yet and it’s 16 years old or something like that. But he does diesel miles.
The 2.0 300 is quick not V8 quick, but certainly quick enough. Don't see many in the Sportbrake, but they do exist.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304276...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304276...
rotarygoth said:
The 2.0 300 is quick not V8 quick, but certainly quick enough. Don't see many in the Sportbrake, but they do exist.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304276...
How reliable are the ingenium engines in these? I know the diesels are very bad, but I’ve not heard great things about the petrols eitherhttps://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304276...
As per above, I'd either be looking at an Audi S6 Avant or a nicely specced Audi A6 Avant 2.0 TDi but the 170bhp or higher.
The only constraint would be if you are doing a lot of short journeys which may cause DPF issues or just go for a quick blast to clean them out.
Wait until number 3 comes along and that changes everything as trying to get 3 car seats in a 'normal' (non SUV) car doesn't work.... We've got an XC60 R Design at the moment as the kids are now out of car seats but stick with an estate if you can!
The only constraint would be if you are doing a lot of short journeys which may cause DPF issues or just go for a quick blast to clean them out.
Wait until number 3 comes along and that changes everything as trying to get 3 car seats in a 'normal' (non SUV) car doesn't work.... We've got an XC60 R Design at the moment as the kids are now out of car seats but stick with an estate if you can!
Angrybiker said:
biggbn said:
Lexus rx450h. Job jobbed.
Yeah the quiet cabin and sound systems appeal, and reliability, my father has driven them for 30 years. Only downside of the 450h is the sparse toys and disconnected driving style with the superlight steering.Angrybiker said:
biggbn said:
Lexus rx450h. Job jobbed.
Yeah the quiet cabin and sound systems appeal, and reliability, my father has driven them for 30 years. Only downside of the 450h is the sparse toys and disconnected driving style with the superlight steering.Well thanks everyone for the input, very useful.
Nice alternative option suggestions too, I'm looking at the Audi S6 avant with a raised eyebrow too.
Yeah on the lexus, I think I'll test drive the rx, f-pace, sportbrake and s6, and see. It looks like if I want something decent which will last the next 6-8 years I'll have to jump to 30k price point, more options there. Shame the E class is still a bit out of reach, although you can start to get E43 V6 then too.
Sportbrake diesel shares are going down at the moment, I'm comforted with the smell and mess side of things but I don't want it sitting on the drive for all but longer trips, more I think about it the more time I'd have to spend in the i30. Perhaps if I lived further out of town...
Nice alternative option suggestions too, I'm looking at the Audi S6 avant with a raised eyebrow too.
Yeah on the lexus, I think I'll test drive the rx, f-pace, sportbrake and s6, and see. It looks like if I want something decent which will last the next 6-8 years I'll have to jump to 30k price point, more options there. Shame the E class is still a bit out of reach, although you can start to get E43 V6 then too.
Sportbrake diesel shares are going down at the moment, I'm comforted with the smell and mess side of things but I don't want it sitting on the drive for all but longer trips, more I think about it the more time I'd have to spend in the i30. Perhaps if I lived further out of town...
lornemalvo said:
Other downsides include fairly expensive servicing, noisy engine when pushed because of the CVT box, the rapid increase in RX450h thefts due to canbus vulnerability ) and the modest boot size (for the size of car). Plus points include a warranty renewed free at every main dealer service up to 10 years old, which probably makes the servicing costs worth paying, fantastic build quality and reliability and excellent service at their dealers. Not the dreadful experience you tend to get from some other "quality" marques, in my experience Mercedes and Audi dealers are truly awful, although I'm sure there are some exceptions.
Yeah agreed on all, and I didn't know about the vulnerability. Last thing I want is a second one taken off the driveway and my area is getting worse for car thefts - honestly why do we need a f
king ulez instead of spending on police to actually be safe. Makes me so FURIOUS!XC90? Massive inside, very safe car and even the lower spec ones are well equiped. We did just under a 1000 miles in ours a few weeks ago driving upto Scotland, doing the tourist stuff and then back down again and its a relaxing car to drive.
I have owned Diesel cars from the laste 90's and can't say I have ever smelt diesel driving them, Maybe my old 96 disco on a sub zero morning but a mordern-ish diesel doesn't emit clouds of grey unburnt derv anymore.
I have owned Diesel cars from the laste 90's and can't say I have ever smelt diesel driving them, Maybe my old 96 disco on a sub zero morning but a mordern-ish diesel doesn't emit clouds of grey unburnt derv anymore.
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