A rant about childcare (nurseries)
Discussion
I have an 18 month old and we are now 6 months or so into full time childcare, on our second nursery.
Some observations I’ve made from two nurseries:
1. A nursery can legally charge a full day of childcare (plus food) on bank holidays when they’re not open. WTF? What other business is allowed to do this to consumers?
2. A child can be sent home for having “diarrhoea” (and told not to attend nursery for 48 hours) despite her clothes being totally clean. The phantom diarrhoea then seems to completely disappear once the child is home and never resurfaces. Further, the child only seems to get this said diarrhoea at nursery. There is of course no refund for any days missed.
3. With absolutely no relation to the above point, a nursery is never short staffed.
4. Despite a typical nursery paying its staff just the minimum wage, in a small building, they are allowed to charge £70 per child per day. Meaning that a small nursery of just 15 children turns over £5250 a week, £273k a year.
It is really starting to boil my piss.
Some observations I’ve made from two nurseries:
1. A nursery can legally charge a full day of childcare (plus food) on bank holidays when they’re not open. WTF? What other business is allowed to do this to consumers?
2. A child can be sent home for having “diarrhoea” (and told not to attend nursery for 48 hours) despite her clothes being totally clean. The phantom diarrhoea then seems to completely disappear once the child is home and never resurfaces. Further, the child only seems to get this said diarrhoea at nursery. There is of course no refund for any days missed.
3. With absolutely no relation to the above point, a nursery is never short staffed.
4. Despite a typical nursery paying its staff just the minimum wage, in a small building, they are allowed to charge £70 per child per day. Meaning that a small nursery of just 15 children turns over £5250 a week, £273k a year.
It is really starting to boil my piss.
Cl4rkyPH said:
I have an 18 month old and we are now 6 months or so into full time childcare, on our second nursery.
Some observations I’ve made from two nurseries:
1. A nursery can legally charge a full day of childcare (plus food) on bank holidays when they’re not open. WTF? What other business is allowed to do this to consumers?
2. A child can be sent home for having “diarrhoea” (and told not to attend nursery for 48 hours) despite her clothes being totally clean. The phantom diarrhoea then seems to completely disappear once the child is home and never resurfaces. Further, the child only seems to get this said diarrhoea at nursery. There is of course no refund for any days missed.
3. With absolutely no relation to the above point, a nursery is never short staffed.
4. Despite a typical nursery paying its staff just the minimum wage, in a small building, they are allowed to charge £70 per child per day. Meaning that a small nursery of just 15 children turns over £5250 a week, £273k a year.
It is really starting to boil my piss.
I wouldn’t disagree based on my childcare experiences too. Some observations I’ve made from two nurseries:
1. A nursery can legally charge a full day of childcare (plus food) on bank holidays when they’re not open. WTF? What other business is allowed to do this to consumers?
2. A child can be sent home for having “diarrhoea” (and told not to attend nursery for 48 hours) despite her clothes being totally clean. The phantom diarrhoea then seems to completely disappear once the child is home and never resurfaces. Further, the child only seems to get this said diarrhoea at nursery. There is of course no refund for any days missed.
3. With absolutely no relation to the above point, a nursery is never short staffed.
4. Despite a typical nursery paying its staff just the minimum wage, in a small building, they are allowed to charge £70 per child per day. Meaning that a small nursery of just 15 children turns over £5250 a week, £273k a year.
It is really starting to boil my piss.
Luckily mine are in school now and I had parental help which meant despite the annoyances it wasn’t full time annoyances
What I will add though (because people are quick to back up nurseries saying how you’d want to spend the best money for someone who is temporarily raising your own precious flesh and blood) is that of all the private houses we work on, the largest and most spendy of them are the ones that own a local nurseries.
Having worked on a luxury many million pound refurb of a house of a nursery owner, prior to having our children, and then visiting their nursery expecting it to be gold standard childcare, it was nice, but it was more like a child farm with low paid young staff members and standard conditions.
Nothing really over and above the church hall pre school that was only £35 a day
Quite like nursing homes, they become more and more lucrative the more premises they have.
A parent at my child’s school now owns 3 of the local nurseries. At 35 years old she’s probably the wealthiest person on the school gates at the moment
Edited by Nemophilist on Tuesday 25th July 19:58
I don't necessarily disagree with some fo your points.
However they need 1 member of staff per three kids at that age. And assume they need cover 12 hours per day for wrap around care etc that's 60 hours per week for 5 staff members. Or equivalent.
Even at £12 an hour that's £3600 per week, plus employee costs of say 20%, you're now up to £4320
Running costs including insurance etc can't be cheap... Food, mortgage, rent, business rates or whatever.
Yes they'll have a mix of kids and get funding etc for some but I can see how they get to the cost.
However they need 1 member of staff per three kids at that age. And assume they need cover 12 hours per day for wrap around care etc that's 60 hours per week for 5 staff members. Or equivalent.
Even at £12 an hour that's £3600 per week, plus employee costs of say 20%, you're now up to £4320
Running costs including insurance etc can't be cheap... Food, mortgage, rent, business rates or whatever.
Yes they'll have a mix of kids and get funding etc for some but I can see how they get to the cost.
Owner of a nursery and 2 breakfast/after school clubs here.
None of our staff have ever been on minimum wage, and to ensure they stay comfortably above that will cost us £19k out of our profits this year.
Around half our children in nursery are govt. funded, and for a 3 year old that’s a ridiculous £4.12 an hour; please try to get your dog walked for that.
Not complaining, after 20 plus years we own the properties so financially we’re in a good place, but when my missus opened our nursery she worked for 5 years without paying herself a penny, and we’re reaping the benefits now.
I agree childcare in this country is a shambles, and it’s all down to the current ‘government’.
Have a read of this article - maybe it will help adjust some of your misconceptions. I know the primary focus of the article is Childminders, but there's a fair bit in there about the economics of nurseries.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-66237789
The other thing that I really do have to say, even though it isn't particularly helpful, is....
I assume that you went into this with both eyes open. You know - discussed what you would both do, who would go back to work and when and what you would do about childcare. As part of that discussion, I would also assume that you looked into the various costs involved and the logistics and then solidified your plan.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-66237789
The other thing that I really do have to say, even though it isn't particularly helpful, is....
I assume that you went into this with both eyes open. You know - discussed what you would both do, who would go back to work and when and what you would do about childcare. As part of that discussion, I would also assume that you looked into the various costs involved and the logistics and then solidified your plan.
As a capitalist, the costs, in isolation, are really no major concern to me, I just thought I’d include them at point number 4 for completeness.
Points 1 and 2 are largely my main concerns. Particularly point number 1.
I had assumed, perhaps stupidly, that because the nursery was closed, I would not have to pay to send my child there on that day.
Points 1 and 2 are largely my main concerns. Particularly point number 1.
I had assumed, perhaps stupidly, that because the nursery was closed, I would not have to pay to send my child there on that day.
Edited by Cl4rkyPH on Saturday 29th July 10:29
I had similar complaints when ours went to nursery.
Also, the government funded hours aren't as useful as you initially think. They don't cover a full day, nor do they cover food, nor do they cover outside of school term times, so even with government help there's still a significant amount to pay. We also found that we were charged for bank holidays, and even when we took our child out of nursery for a family holiday, we still had to pay due to "required staffing levels".
Glad we're beyond that now
Also, the government funded hours aren't as useful as you initially think. They don't cover a full day, nor do they cover food, nor do they cover outside of school term times, so even with government help there's still a significant amount to pay. We also found that we were charged for bank holidays, and even when we took our child out of nursery for a family holiday, we still had to pay due to "required staffing levels".
Glad we're beyond that now
Ohio7274 said:
Does anyone bother to raise their own f
king kids these days or is that so 1979…? !
My other half is simply the best mum. If she didn’t earn the money she did, then she’d be a full time mum.king kids these days or is that so 1979…? !Unfortunately, her income is above average, as such, it would be a poor financial decision for her to give it up.
Thanks for your comment.
Be thankful it’s 70 quid. It’s over £100 in London.
All of what you said I tend to agree with. Though suspect running costs (especially now), insurances, and staff costs given the ratios makes it a little more modest.
I’m approaching my final year of nursery, by the end of which point I’ll have spent £75k, crazy really, that’s for one child.
Like anything you’ll settle into it fairly quickly and it’s lunacy will become normal.
All of what you said I tend to agree with. Though suspect running costs (especially now), insurances, and staff costs given the ratios makes it a little more modest.
I’m approaching my final year of nursery, by the end of which point I’ll have spent £75k, crazy really, that’s for one child.
Like anything you’ll settle into it fairly quickly and it’s lunacy will become normal.
Ohio7274 said:
Does anyone bother to raise their own fking kids these days or is that so 1979…? !
You seem pleasant. A credit to whoever raised you.king kids these days or is that so 1979…? !Edit: I may as well add that the nursery my kids went to is bloody brilliant and I don't really understand why people get so het up about the costs nurseries charge - they seem fair enough to me. Tbh I struggle to see how they make much at all given they need to pay for quite a few staff, rent, power, insurance etc. I know three nursery owners and none of them are exactly dripping in cash.
Edited by Roger Irrelevant on Tuesday 25th July 21:39
We've managed to find a good nursery in the North. £40 a day for 7.30am-6pm inc 3 meals and 2 snack times.
I work shifts so it's a random pattern my kids are in but I'm able to give them a years worth of dates and works out about 12 days a month they are in.
We don't have to pay for bank Holidays though thankfully. The only real annoyance I've had is if they shut for some reason you still pay. Last year when it was hot everyone had to go collect their kids. As though we keep the kids in a freezer at home.
Its going up to £44 a day in Sept though
I work shifts so it's a random pattern my kids are in but I'm able to give them a years worth of dates and works out about 12 days a month they are in.
We don't have to pay for bank Holidays though thankfully. The only real annoyance I've had is if they shut for some reason you still pay. Last year when it was hot everyone had to go collect their kids. As though we keep the kids in a freezer at home.
Its going up to £44 a day in Sept though
Cl4rkyPH said:
Ohio7274 said:
Does anyone bother to raise their own fking kids these days or is that so 1979…? !
My other half is simply the best mum. If she didn’t earn the money she did, then she’d be a full time mum.king kids these days or is that so 1979…? !Unfortunately, her income is above average, as such, it would be a poor financial decision for her to give it up.
Thanks for your comment.
It's only not worth it if a salary is just or close to paying childcare costs.
Plus spending 5 days a week caring for children isn't for everyone, and as this is a finance forum pensions can also take a big hit, not working or going part time etc.
It’s a bugger.
We had two in nursery from 10 months til school age and spent about £75K+ after tax on nursery fees in that time.
Yes it’s expensive but it allowed the wife to carry on working and it worked out pretty well for the kids.
Sure you could probably get a childminder or family member to do it cheaper but I thought our nursery was pretty good and gave them a lot in terms of social skills and pre-Ed education etc.
I did of course bh about the cost at the time and even considered opening my own (I have a spreadsheet of costs somewhere) but when you do the maths, I’m not sure it’s as lucrative as you might think….
We had two in nursery from 10 months til school age and spent about £75K+ after tax on nursery fees in that time.
Yes it’s expensive but it allowed the wife to carry on working and it worked out pretty well for the kids.
Sure you could probably get a childminder or family member to do it cheaper but I thought our nursery was pretty good and gave them a lot in terms of social skills and pre-Ed education etc.
I did of course b
h about the cost at the time and even considered opening my own (I have a spreadsheet of costs somewhere) but when you do the maths, I’m not sure it’s as lucrative as you might think….Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff