BMW M4 Engine Repair potentially not covered by warranty
Discussion
Hi all,
Looking for some advice here. I have a '16 F82 M4 (Purchased in Dec 21) and I noticed the past few weeks it has been leaking oil and had white smoke coming from the exhaust. I took it in to BMW who diagnosed the issue as a leaking sump gasket which would be repaired under warranty. However, I got a call saying they also found chain guide in the sump which requires urgent attention and is also covered under warranty. However, they let me know that if they find out the chain guide has been replaced prior (before my ownership) and is from non-genuine BMW parts they will not cover it under the warranty and so the cost will be on me (around 2k+). Where would I stand on this if it does turn out it was replaced with non-genuine BMW parts and would I have any leg to stand on in regards to getting it covered under warranty?
Looking for some advice here. I have a '16 F82 M4 (Purchased in Dec 21) and I noticed the past few weeks it has been leaking oil and had white smoke coming from the exhaust. I took it in to BMW who diagnosed the issue as a leaking sump gasket which would be repaired under warranty. However, I got a call saying they also found chain guide in the sump which requires urgent attention and is also covered under warranty. However, they let me know that if they find out the chain guide has been replaced prior (before my ownership) and is from non-genuine BMW parts they will not cover it under the warranty and so the cost will be on me (around 2k+). Where would I stand on this if it does turn out it was replaced with non-genuine BMW parts and would I have any leg to stand on in regards to getting it covered under warranty?
I'd love to see them prove its non genuine.
They need to review the electronic service history, that should at least tell them whether the chain work has been done.
Also if you bought it from a main dealer, it'll be an approved used car, which means that it meets whatever standards BMW operate to in terms of repairs and fit for purpose.
Finally, if it is non genuine, and they can prove it, you need to find out who fitted it and speak to them.
They need to review the electronic service history, that should at least tell them whether the chain work has been done.
Also if you bought it from a main dealer, it'll be an approved used car, which means that it meets whatever standards BMW operate to in terms of repairs and fit for purpose.
Finally, if it is non genuine, and they can prove it, you need to find out who fitted it and speak to them.
Seems an odd statement to make, I'd ask them if they suspect it might be the case.
I don't think chain replacement on these is particularly common? Any reason to suspect its been replaced (it's a 'for-life'part)?
Do pattern parts even exist?
I'd probably take the risk, you don't have much to lose and whole lot to gain.
I don't think chain replacement on these is particularly common? Any reason to suspect its been replaced (it's a 'for-life'part)?
Do pattern parts even exist?
I'd probably take the risk, you don't have much to lose and whole lot to gain.
I can't really dispute that, but then in that case if I buy a car I should what - strip the entire engine out to make sure everything is OEM? If I purchased the car in Dec 21 and say in 2017 someone replaced a part not using OEM parts and left no record of it happening how would I even know this?
John Laverick said:
Seems an odd statement to make, I'd ask them if they suspect it might be the case.
I don't think chain replacement on these is particularly common? Any reason to suspect its been replaced (it's a 'for-life'part)?
Do pattern parts even exist?
I'd probably take the risk, you don't have much to lose and whole lot to gain.
Yeah I found it pretty strange as they went out of their way to call me and say that. They did say the chance of it being replaced prior is very slim, but regardless still has me worried now hahaI don't think chain replacement on these is particularly common? Any reason to suspect its been replaced (it's a 'for-life'part)?
Do pattern parts even exist?
I'd probably take the risk, you don't have much to lose and whole lot to gain.
As above, it's quite important to establish where you bought the car from. If it was sold to you from a BMW dealer as approved used then they don't have a leg to stand on.
If there is any chance that they are going to try to pull a fast one on you once the engine is in pieces, make sure that you request IN WRITING that any parts removed from the engine must be retained for the customer (you) to inspect personally and to be able to take away if BMW subsequently claim they aren't genuine. That way you have some evidence to use in your own follow up investigation should it be required. You don't want to be fobbed off with them telling you the parts weren't genuine but they've already been disposed of.
If there is any chance that they are going to try to pull a fast one on you once the engine is in pieces, make sure that you request IN WRITING that any parts removed from the engine must be retained for the customer (you) to inspect personally and to be able to take away if BMW subsequently claim they aren't genuine. That way you have some evidence to use in your own follow up investigation should it be required. You don't want to be fobbed off with them telling you the parts weren't genuine but they've already been disposed of.
It seems to me to be on a par with the vet warning you that your beloved 4 year old dog might die under the anaesthetic.
They have to tell you of the possibiity, because if they don't they are liable.
I suspect this is just them covering their backsides in case there is a problem, even though they think the risk is small.
Good luck, but do insist in writing that all parts are retained for your external expert inspection and retention (they are your property), and that you will not accept their invoice without the parts that they have removed from the car.
They have to tell you of the possibiity, because if they don't they are liable.
I suspect this is just them covering their backsides in case there is a problem, even though they think the risk is small.
Good luck, but do insist in writing that all parts are retained for your external expert inspection and retention (they are your property), and that you will not accept their invoice without the parts that they have removed from the car.
As another poster mentioned, get it in writing you want all parts retained for inspection.
If they say the parts aren't genuine, ask them to demonstrate how they've concluded this - also in writing.
If they can prove it, collect the car and have the repair done at a specialist as it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper - and cancel the warranty if you're paying monthly!
Recent experience with BMW aftersales is that they seem ready to fight before they've even diagnosed the issue. I was going to extend the warranty on my AUC M5 but it's been nigh on impossible to get some niggly issues resolved - lack of service appointments and the threats of being liable for labour depending on cause.
If they say the parts aren't genuine, ask them to demonstrate how they've concluded this - also in writing.
If they can prove it, collect the car and have the repair done at a specialist as it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper - and cancel the warranty if you're paying monthly!
Recent experience with BMW aftersales is that they seem ready to fight before they've even diagnosed the issue. I was going to extend the warranty on my AUC M5 but it's been nigh on impossible to get some niggly issues resolved - lack of service appointments and the threats of being liable for labour depending on cause.
Hammy98 said:
As another poster mentioned, get it in writing you want all parts retained for inspection.
Recent experience with BMW aftersales is that they seem ready to fight before they've even diagnosed the issue. I was going to extend the warranty on my AUC M5 but it's been nigh on impossible to get some niggly issues resolved - lack of service appointments and the threats of being liable for labour depending on cause.
Part of is because Allianz have made it increasingly difficult to get approval for diagnostics and repairs covered under extended warranty. Back when I first picked my bmw up in general they just wanted pictures and descriptions of the issue. Just prior to getting rid of mine a tech rather unexpectedly let slip that Allianz were fundamentally asking for videos of the fault if there were no diagnostic codes, but really codes were needed before anything would be done. Recent experience with BMW aftersales is that they seem ready to fight before they've even diagnosed the issue. I was going to extend the warranty on my AUC M5 but it's been nigh on impossible to get some niggly issues resolved - lack of service appointments and the threats of being liable for labour depending on cause.
The level of reluctance to even follow the warranty process means that it is easier to the say the sort of statements we see here. It is one of the fundamental reasons (amongst a few others), that I rather wish never to own a BMW again.
The flipside of that is having moving to a completely different brand theirs is underwritten by Car Care Plan and I know people have had issues with them on other manufacturer backed warranties, but my experience is a simple phone call description of the issue and the claim proceeds with the minimum of fuss. So much so that in the last week they authorised £1,200 of repairs with no issue or bother from me.
I would have thought there was a limited aftermarket offering for M4 timing chain guides and then I looked and found some!
What are the chances that it actually does have some? I think fairly small.
It would have to been done between 2019 and 2021 (when you bought) it as that was the point it was out of manufacturers warranty. The guides won't be mental money direct from BMW, so it would seem callous that someone fitted aftermarket guides to save a few quid, when the majority of the bill would be labour. Unless there is a problem with BMW guides and someone thought they knew better and fitted something aftermarket.
I'd authorise the start of the repair in your position.
Edited to add: I don't see how a defective sump/gasket can lead to white smoke coming out of the exhaust though. That seems unrelated to me on conventional engines, albeit I don't know the engine structure on this car.
What are the chances that it actually does have some? I think fairly small.
It would have to been done between 2019 and 2021 (when you bought) it as that was the point it was out of manufacturers warranty. The guides won't be mental money direct from BMW, so it would seem callous that someone fitted aftermarket guides to save a few quid, when the majority of the bill would be labour. Unless there is a problem with BMW guides and someone thought they knew better and fitted something aftermarket.
I'd authorise the start of the repair in your position.
Edited to add: I don't see how a defective sump/gasket can lead to white smoke coming out of the exhaust though. That seems unrelated to me on conventional engines, albeit I don't know the engine structure on this car.
Edited by Jon_Bmw on Wednesday 26th July 14:22
I'd go ahead with the repair with the caveats above. You want all parts retained in case of there being an issue, and if applicable, you want a full breakdown of the process they've used to determine that the parts are non-genuine.
The S55 doesn't seem particularly prone to timing chain issues, but BMW generally has a pretty appalling record in this regard in the past 15 years.
The S55 doesn't seem particularly prone to timing chain issues, but BMW generally has a pretty appalling record in this regard in the past 15 years.
Fairly standard practice for M cars now, as the turbocharged era cars are often modded due to how cheap extra power is. So they just warn anyone upfront as I guess they’ve had a number of disputes in the past.
Mods, cheap repairs and mileage blocking on first owner lease deals is an unfortunate modern reality of buying second-hand M cars and other desirable stuff.
Mods, cheap repairs and mileage blocking on first owner lease deals is an unfortunate modern reality of buying second-hand M cars and other desirable stuff.
Hi all thought I’d give a update!
So it was a faulty sump gasket and chain guide which was thankfully all replaced all under warranty at the same time I had my full service. Otherwise would cost me around £4,000.
However, bad news is the next day after I collected the car I saw significant white smoke coming from my engine and a coolant/engine malfunction warning popped up. I drove it straight back to BMW, where I was later told it was due to a loose coolant pipe and was offered an apology. I paid £1,000 for the full service and £250 for the warranty (my excess), this whole ordeal is certainly not indicative of a £1,250 service to say the least….
So it was a faulty sump gasket and chain guide which was thankfully all replaced all under warranty at the same time I had my full service. Otherwise would cost me around £4,000.
However, bad news is the next day after I collected the car I saw significant white smoke coming from my engine and a coolant/engine malfunction warning popped up. I drove it straight back to BMW, where I was later told it was due to a loose coolant pipe and was offered an apology. I paid £1,000 for the full service and £250 for the warranty (my excess), this whole ordeal is certainly not indicative of a £1,250 service to say the least….
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