New 20mph zone

[gringonuts]

A village near my home has set up a 20mph zone. The zone covers pretty much the whole village since this road leads to a traffic light controlled crossroads and there are zone entrances/exits at points on the other 3 roads. The photo above is one entrance to this zone but it seems to be very muddled. I was under the impression that it was not legal to have differing speed limits on either side of a single carriageway road...but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

If this zone "terminal" is not strictly legal then does that negate the legality of the whole zone? And if that's the case then does the speed limit revert to the original 30mph?

Apologies if I haven't used the correct terminology but I'm just curious (it's nigh on impossible to go faster than 20mph anyway what with the potholes and vertiginous speed bumps). Thanks in advance for your thoughts/wisdom.

[Pica-Pica]

gringonuts said:

A village near my home has set up a 20mph zone. The zone covers pretty much the whole village since this road leads to a traffic light controlled crossroads and there are zone entrances/exits at points on the other 3 roads. The photo above is one entrance to this zone but it seems to be very muddled. I was under the impression that it was not legal to have differing speed limits on either side of a single carriageway road...but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

If this zone "terminal" is not strictly legal then does that negate the legality of the whole zone? And if that's the case then does the speed limit revert to the original 30mph?

Apologies if I haven't used the correct terminology but I'm just curious (it's nigh on impossible to go faster than 20mph anyway what with the potholes and vertiginous speed bumps). Thanks in advance for your thoughts/wisdom.

Why do you think it is NOT 20 on the other side of the carriageway?

[gringonuts]

Pica-Pica said:

Why do you think it is NOT 20 on the other side of the carriageway?

Because if you look at the roundel in the road opposite the parked Range Rover it says 30 (albeit upside down).

[Panamax]

I think you'll find a "20 mph zone" is subtly different from a straightforward "20 mph speed limit".

It's a truly weird distinction, but it exists.

20mph zones require any point to be within 50m of a "traffic calming device" which used to be defined quite strictly as a physical calming device.
On the other hand,
20mph limits only require each point to be within 50m of a repeater sign that informed the driver that the speed limit was 20mph.

Both are speed limits, but the "zone" is easier for councils to force into existence, so long as they've slung in some traffic calming measures.

Bonkers? Oh yes, completely nuts, but par for the course in 2020s Britain.

[Terminator X]

Doesn't there need to be a TRO to change the limit? Might be worth hunting it down online.

TX.

[Grumps.]

Is the approach to the crossing 20mph from the other direction?

[gringonuts]

Grumps. said:

Is the approach to the crossing 20mph from the other direction?

Apologies, this was my first attempt at uploading a photo and I didn’t appreciate the loss of detail/resolution from the original.

The photo shows the 2 terminal signs for the start of the 20 zone but they are staggered by 30-40m. The right hand terminal sign is opposite the parked Range Rover. The reverse of that sign says 30, as does its corresponding roundel on the road. The upshot is that the 30-40m of road has two speed limits in different directions.

[boombang]

A 20mph zone was brought in near me. The signage was put up over the course of 2 months, making things bloody confusing.
The first sign up was the 20 start, a few weeks later the 20 repeaters appeared on lamp posts, finally a month on the return to 30 was added on exits.

[ingenieur]

Terminator X said:

Doesn't there need to be a TRO to change the limit? Might be worth hunting it down online.

TX.

Where can you find the TMO online?

[Bendo]

There is nothing to forbid different speed limits in differentdirections on an S2 road.

[E-bmw]

gringonuts said:

Grumps. said:

Is the approach to the crossing 20mph from the other direction?

Apologies, this was my first attempt at uploading a photo and I didn’t appreciate the loss of detail/resolution from the original.

The photo shows the 2 terminal signs for the start of the 20 zone but they are staggered by 30-40m. The right hand terminal sign is opposite the parked Range Rover. The reverse of that sign says 30, as does its corresponding roundel on the road. The upshot is that the 30-40m of road has two speed limits in different directions.

Possibly just done by some idiot from the local council who doesn't understand.

Alternatively, when the 20 zone was decided they didn't realise that there aren't 2 opposite sign poles, so they have just put them up like that "for now".

[Pica-Pica]

E-bmw said:

gringonuts said:

Grumps. said:

Is the approach to the crossing 20mph from the other direction?

Apologies, this was my first attempt at uploading a photo and I didn’t appreciate the loss of detail/resolution from the original.

The photo shows the 2 terminal signs for the start of the 20 zone but they are staggered by 30-40m. The right hand terminal sign is opposite the parked Range Rover. The reverse of that sign says 30, as does its corresponding roundel on the road. The upshot is that the 30-40m of road has two speed limits in different directions.

Possibly just done by some idiot from the local council who doesn't understand.

Alternatively, when the 20 zone was decided they didn't realise that there aren't 2 opposite sign poles, so they have just put them up like that "for now".

More likely the different placings were dictated by visibility, and ground position. Also if there was a post with 20 on one side and 30 on the other, then an ‘idiot’ member of the public will swivel the signs around.

[gringonuts]

Bendo said:

There is nothing to forbid different speed limits in differentdirections on an S2 road.

Thanks for this…but what do you mean by an “an s2 road”?

[Bendo]

gringonuts said:

Thanks for this…but what do you mean by an “an s2 road”?

Single carriageway 2 lanes. See https://www.roads.org.uk/abbreviations

[gringonuts]

Bendo said:

Single carriageway 2 lanes. See https://www.roads.org.uk/abbreviations

Thanks for the explanation…and the link, it’s very informative.

And if you don’t mind a further question, why do you think that S2 roads can have different speed limits in each direction? To my mind (happy to be corrected) it seems utter madness, especially in a zone that has presumably been changed to afford more safety for vulnerable road users. For example, Mrs Miggins crossing the road can expect traffic travelling at 20 mph to her near side BUT when she crosses the central white line that expectation has to change to 30mph? And vice versa if she crosses from the other direction?

I’m genuinely interested…not having a pop. Thanks.

[Bendo]

It's possible I'm wrong. I've seen lots of conflicting comments on forums over the years, none have ever definitively pointed to any TSRGD regs etc that forbid it. Happy to be proven wrong though.

[Grumps.]

gringonuts said:

Bendo said:

Single carriageway 2 lanes. See https://www.roads.org.uk/abbreviations

Thanks for the explanation…and the link, it’s very informative.

And if you don’t mind a further question, why do you think that S2 roads can have different speed limits in each direction? To my mind (happy to be corrected) it seems utter madness, especially in a zone that has presumably been changed to afford more safety for vulnerable road users. For example, Mrs Miggins crossing the road can expect traffic travelling at 20 mph to her near side BUT when she crosses the central white line that expectation has to change to 30mph? And vice versa if she crosses from the other direction?

I’m genuinely interested…not having a pop. Thanks.

That does seem quite bizarre but at some point the other side leading up to the crossing will be dropped to 20.

[Terminator X]

ingenieur said:

Terminator X said:

Doesn't there need to be a TRO to change the limit? Might be worth hunting it down online.

TX.

Where can you find the TMO online?

TRO's for a random council here, just do the same for the council in question:

https://www.kirklees.gov.uk/beta/transport-roads-a...

TX.

[Solocle]

gringonuts said:

Bendo said:

Single carriageway 2 lanes. See https://www.roads.org.uk/abbreviations

Thanks for the explanation…and the link, it’s very informative.

And if you don’t mind a further question, why do you think that S2 roads can have different speed limits in each direction? To my mind (happy to be corrected) it seems utter madness, especially in a zone that has presumably been changed to afford more safety for vulnerable road users. For example, Mrs Miggins crossing the road can expect traffic travelling at 20 mph to her near side BUT when she crosses the central white line that expectation has to change to 30mph? And vice versa if she crosses from the other direction?

I’m genuinely interested…not having a pop. Thanks.

I was under the distinct impression that it's not allowed, as if you did a 3 point turn, how would you know about the new speed limit?

It does make sense in certain places, like a local dual carriageway has an asymmetric speed limit where there's a 400 yard buffer 40 limit before a roundabout, but it's straight to NSL as you leave:

[MustangGT]

Bendo said:

There is nothing to forbid different speed limits in differentdirections on an S2 road.

I do not think this is correct, please provide the legislation for this. I understand DCs can be, but not single lane roads.

I would also note that the website you refer to is not an official website.