Porsche Open at Brands Hatch
Discussion
I entered the Porsche Sprint at Brands this weekend and enjoyed the competition and the banter and laughter
with fellow drivers and it was very enjoyable too
lots of cars within a second of each other .
I then watched the porsche Open as my friend was racing in a cup car , it had a driver change half way through the hour - great spectacle - like watching the carrera cup races with other similar cars
But can someone please explain what is the point of the orange car which was lapping the slower cars after 3 laps ? surely you do this to compete but its like having a radical SR8 on a porsche trackday - the only way you will not win is unless it breaks down !
Is there no weight /power limits /restrictions ?
or is it a case of I have the money to buy a GT1 racer
and win the porsche open
tim
with fellow drivers and it was very enjoyable too
lots of cars within a second of each other .
I then watched the porsche Open as my friend was racing in a cup car , it had a driver change half way through the hour - great spectacle - like watching the carrera cup races with other similar cars
But can someone please explain what is the point of the orange car which was lapping the slower cars after 3 laps ? surely you do this to compete but its like having a radical SR8 on a porsche trackday - the only way you will not win is unless it breaks down !
Is there no weight /power limits /restrictions ?
or is it a case of I have the money to buy a GT1 racer
and win the porsche open
tim
In respect of the Porsche open I believe that the "buy a car and spend as much as I need to win" philosophy has already been tried by Rupert Lewin. Usuccessfully by the look of it (imo).
The bottom line is that Richard Chamberlain has developed a class 1 dominating car on a realistic budget, indeed underneath all the orange 935esque bodywork is still just the chassis of a 911E. He runs with only around 500bhp on track from his 3.4 engine but such is the development of the chassis/brakes combination it appears to have double.
I do not believe that it is his fault that no-one yet has offered serious competition, if anyone out there thinks it is easy then why not have a go?
The bottom line is that Richard Chamberlain has developed a class 1 dominating car on a realistic budget, indeed underneath all the orange 935esque bodywork is still just the chassis of a 911E. He runs with only around 500bhp on track from his 3.4 engine but such is the development of the chassis/brakes combination it appears to have double.
I do not believe that it is his fault that no-one yet has offered serious competition, if anyone out there thinks it is easy then why not have a go?
Mr C's driving display doesn't make it that dull to watch though,,,he demostrated his tremendous skill on a twice in the 2nd race....this was when back markers under pressure span in front of him...on both occasions he managed to keep the orange beast out of trouble and go on to win.
As a point of reference RC was 5-6 secs a lap quicker than his support driver in Sundays race...as good as it is, it's not all down to the car and I expect it is a lot harder to get in and drive fast than your averge 996TT
As a point of reference RC was 5-6 secs a lap quicker than his support driver in Sundays race...as good as it is, it's not all down to the car and I expect it is a lot harder to get in and drive fast than your averge 996TT
Colin,
I was bad last year but Ive had a year of trackdays which helped
I was on a good lap but coming out of clearways I went from 2nd to 5th and could not get the gear lever in 3rd
and the car just slowed and slowed ( pressure no doubt )
Im seriously thinking of doing the sprint next year but first the RS has to lose 100-150 kg ( and I need to get down the gym )
you was mighty quick !
well done
It would be great to see a few cars as quick as richards -
PS - I do love watching the orange beast tear up tarmac
tim
I was bad last year but Ive had a year of trackdays which helped
I was on a good lap but coming out of clearways I went from 2nd to 5th and could not get the gear lever in 3rd
and the car just slowed and slowed ( pressure no doubt )
Im seriously thinking of doing the sprint next year but first the RS has to lose 100-150 kg ( and I need to get down the gym )
you was mighty quick !
well done
It would be great to see a few cars as quick as richards -
PS - I do love watching the orange beast tear up tarmac
tim
was loving the black version of RC's car as it spits the best flames 
why is that car so much slower though?
9M the 911 looked great but i really love the supercharged 968 that was running, my dad and i had a good look at it in the paddock on sunday morning so tempting to put the SC on our 968.
why is that car so much slower though? 9M the 911 looked great but i really love the supercharged 968 that was running, my dad and i had a good look at it in the paddock on sunday morning so tempting to put the SC on our 968.
I must say Tim, I have thought the same thing in the past. RC's car simply destroys everything else. But it is the Porsche "Open" and so anything goes, no limits.
I bet there are 2 reasons why Lewin's car doesn't beat RC's orange beast. Firstly his car is probably too heavy and secondly he probably can't drive as well as RC. And this is despite having a far more expensive car than RC and one with a sequential gear box (I think Burzel said it had sequential gears).
So......Mr Belton, why don't you build something to challenge RC? It would be great fun and let's face it, you have the facilities. You have done lots of sprinting and you have won at that often enough, so why not aim for the top of the Porsche Open?
I had a close look at RC's orange car at Croft once and it is pretty hardcore. The bodywork looked very flimsy and light, it reminded me of a spaceframe racer that was made to just "look" like a 935. I suppose this description is half accurate anyway.
I will be at the Porsche Open at Croft on 25 September. Anyone else going?
I bet there are 2 reasons why Lewin's car doesn't beat RC's orange beast. Firstly his car is probably too heavy and secondly he probably can't drive as well as RC. And this is despite having a far more expensive car than RC and one with a sequential gear box (I think Burzel said it had sequential gears).
So......Mr Belton, why don't you build something to challenge RC? It would be great fun and let's face it, you have the facilities. You have done lots of sprinting and you have won at that often enough, so why not aim for the top of the Porsche Open?
I had a close look at RC's orange car at Croft once and it is pretty hardcore. The bodywork looked very flimsy and light, it reminded me of a spaceframe racer that was made to just "look" like a 935. I suppose this description is half accurate anyway.
I will be at the Porsche Open at Croft on 25 September. Anyone else going?
timmo said:
Colin,
I was on a good lap but coming out of clearways I went from 2nd to 5th and could not get the gear lever in 3rd
and the car just slowed and slowed ( pressure no doubt )
Im seriously thinking of doing the sprint next year but first the RS has to lose 100-150 kg ( and I need to get down the gym )
you was mighty quick !
well done
tim
It is the pressure of the event for sure, I did the same on my first timed run and changed from 3rd to 4th instead of 2nd going into McLaren/Clearways and lost 1/2 a second as a result, so don't cut yourself up over it. I did get into a nice groove on the last run though, really pressed on with a near perfect run and lots of grip (apart from on the concrete dust around clearways) and late braking.
My car weighed in at 1282kg with me and 1/3 of a tank, so the car would be around 1150kg dry without driver. With 415bhp in the back the spec is pretty close to your RS (most dyno at 400-410) so in theory to compete on the track you will need to achieve a similar weight. What did yours weigh on the scales?
On the hills however power and grip are much less important than weight, so a well driven lightweight early 911 will have an advantage because they can change direction so quickly, whereas we can only monster the straights.
ccharlie6 said:
9M the 911 looked great but i really love the supercharged 968 that was running, my dad and i had a good look at it in the paddock on sunday morning so tempting to put the SC on our 968.
Mad isn't it? I spend 5 years and goodness knows how many grand on developing the aircooled atmo engine and the most interest is in our bolt on supercharger kit for the 968. On a price/performance basis it cannot be beaten, truly sorted out now, what you saw running at the weekend had been fitted to the car on the Thursday night and made 348bhp through a standard cat, MOT legal. Needs suspension sorting out though, way too much roll on standard 968 non-M030 CS shocks; Big Reds haul it up well enough even with standard pads.
Business partner Marc (9m Panelcraft) drove the car in the sprint challenge which was his first ever competitive event. Talk about nervous! Big slide and spin at Clearways on the dust was a combination of over exuberance and inexperience, but aside from the result the speed of the car was there for all to see down the straight. The quiet exhaust makes it sound like a jet as well.
johnny senna said:
So......Mr Belton, why don't you build something to challenge RC? It would be great fun and let's face it, you have the facilities. You have done lots of sprinting and you have won at that often enough, so why not aim for the top of the Porsche Open?
I have thought about this on many occasions and I think that I could build something that would run him close for not a ridiculous sum. However I do have wife/child/993RSR to support so I would need to find a suitable sponsor before I could afford to do it.
I did have a chat with Pete Morris and Henry F on Saturday about running my 993RSR on slicks in the Open class 2 against Henry's GT3 Cup car. They were lapping in 52/53 seconds on new slicks (51/52 on Sunday) whereas I was running low 54s (53 maybe?) on old Dunlop SS Race, so my car has the pace but I am not sure I want to risk the most valuable asset I have in a race.
Maybe if me and Marc get our act together we can finish the 993GT2 shell up over the winter, build a spare n/a engine for it, and have a 400bhp atmo class winner, but at our current work load I doubt that this will happen for a while longer.
ninemeister said:
So......Mr Belton, why don't you build something to challenge RC? It would be great fun and let's face it, you have the facilities. You have done lots of sprinting and you have won at that often enough, so why not aim for the top of the Porsche Open?
I have thought about this on many occasions and I think that I could build something that would run him close for not a ridiculous sum. However I do have wife/child/993RSR to support so I would need to find a suitable sponsor before I could afford to do it.
I did have a chat with Pete Morris and Henry F on Saturday about running my 993RSR on slicks in the Open class 2 against Henry's GT3 Cup car. They were lapping in 52/53 seconds on new slicks (51/52 on Sunday) whereas I was running low 54s (53 maybe?) on old Dunlop SS Race, so my car has the pace but I am not sure I want to risk the most valuable asset I have in a race.
Maybe if me and Marc get our act together we can finish the 993GT2 shell up over the winter, build a spare n/a engine for it, and have a 400bhp atmo class winner, but at our current work load I doubt that this will happen for a while longer.
Thanks for that Colin. Running your 993 RS CS in races rather than sprints was going to be my next suggestion but you beat me to it.
PS.....I will be sending you an e-mail soon about fettling my car a bit. Please be on the look out for it.
aasc said:
At the risk of hijacking the thread - what's the cost of the 968 SC conversion?
cheers,
We had a target price of £4995+VAT fitted, but in practise we have found that a larger radiator is essential for track use to prevent overheating, therefore we are debating about making the rad upgrade part of the kit. If we do the price will be £5395+VAT fitted (the rad costs us more than the difference). If anyone wants to discuss this further I think we should start another thread.
A fun weekend. Rather a lot of traffic on track and you had to be careful passing it as sometimes as a little erratic. Didn`t help that we are doing a 24 hour race in the car Sept 10/11 so keen not to get any damage. The big difference between sprinting and racing, a bit more 3 dimensional and you need to be aware of others. Ultimately can be frustrating when you are looking to achieve specific lap times.
The car was running it`s endurance gearbox who`s gears are about 25% taller than the sprint box. 3rd gear is the main problem as once over that "hump" all runs smoothly. Unfortunately 3rd gear rather busy at Brands !
That said a couple of good races, luckily Pete pitted early in the first race so I did get a drive (a lot of the second drivers only got a couple of laps before the safety car came out.
Good fun doing the hot laps, especially in the third session when Richard pulled the Carrera GT off and allowed me to act as pace car. Was able to flow through the corners a little more giving the passenger a little bit more of an experience.
Re: R.C, a good man who appreciates other`s plight on the track and is able to pass without compramising someone else`s race.
Henry
The car was running it`s endurance gearbox who`s gears are about 25% taller than the sprint box. 3rd gear is the main problem as once over that "hump" all runs smoothly. Unfortunately 3rd gear rather busy at Brands !
That said a couple of good races, luckily Pete pitted early in the first race so I did get a drive (a lot of the second drivers only got a couple of laps before the safety car came out.
Good fun doing the hot laps, especially in the third session when Richard pulled the Carrera GT off and allowed me to act as pace car. Was able to flow through the corners a little more giving the passenger a little bit more of an experience.
Re: R.C, a good man who appreciates other`s plight on the track and is able to pass without compramising someone else`s race.
Henry
Henry-F said:
Good fun doing the hot laps, especially in the third session when Richard pulled the Carrera GT off and allowed me to act as pace car. Was able to flow through the corners a little more giving the passenger a little bit more of an experience.
Henry
Ah, that explains why we all went a little quicker in the PM session on Monday. The previous two sessions were rather slow and I didn't really feel that I was giving my passengers an exciting experiance.
Did Richard pull in for a reason or had you arranged to act as pace car?
Jonathan
9M- how about running the SC'd 968CS in the open? lot less ££ at stake than with ya RSR.
Un-official timings by muggins saw the 911 Virgin Gt3 (cup car?) at mainly 53sec, the 993GT2s at around the same, while in the other race the winning 944Turbo (restricted to stock bhp?) was timed by muggins at mainly 54 secs, (running cups rather than slicks?? I diddnt check) hardly much slower consdering the diferent investment costs. SC'd 968 has potential to be quicker still than 944T?.......
ps hope my drool wiped off the 968 ok I've gotta get my arse to Northern Monkey land & get a drive in that baby.
Un-official timings by muggins saw the 911 Virgin Gt3 (cup car?) at mainly 53sec, the 993GT2s at around the same, while in the other race the winning 944Turbo (restricted to stock bhp?) was timed by muggins at mainly 54 secs, (running cups rather than slicks?? I diddnt check) hardly much slower consdering the diferent investment costs. SC'd 968 has potential to be quicker still than 944T?.......
ps hope my drool wiped off the 968 ok
I've gotta get my arse to Northern Monkey land & get a drive in that baby. Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff