Australian state to introduce ultra high power licence

[rodericb]

The state of South Australia will introduce a new tier of drivers licence for drivers of "ultra high power" vehicles, which are those with a specific power greater than 276kW per tonne where the gross vehicle mass is less than 4.5 tonnes. The licencing requirement starts on the first of December 2024. There's apparently 200 "models" of vehicles which fall under this new licencing requirement, including the Lamborghini Huracan. A Huracan prompted the formulation and subsequent introduction of this new licencing requirement as one was involved in the death of a teenager a few years ago as the driver lost control and hit some pedestrians walking along a street.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/south-australia-anno...

Owners of cars which fall under this new licencing requirement won't be able to drive their "ultra high powered vehicle" until they've attained this new licence. To achieve "driving god" status one will be required to complete an online training course.

Drivers of ultra high performance cars will also be fined $5000 if they disable safety mechanisms such as stability control, traction control.....

[andy43]

Land of the free <—————-> Australia
I think they need some new politicians.

[samoht]

276kW/ton is 370hp/ton, or about 550hp in a 1.5 ton car.

The extra licensing level could be a good thing, if the 'online training course' is actually useful. It would be even better to have something like CAT Driver Training, but that's probably unrealistic.

I wonder how many Corolla-driving teenagers will sign up for the course just for the coveted 'U' on their drivers licence ?

[Artsy]

While I'm not a fan of any kind of restriction on what one can drive, I'm surprised this has never come up before when it comes to cars.

We've had restrictions on high power motorbikes by age for a long time now whereas for cars it's possible to drive whatever you want as long as you have the money to buy (and in theory at least) insure it.

While this severely restricts the number of people who would have access to a supercar at 18 it has always seemed a little on the unfair side that with motorbikes you'd have to wait until 24 to get something seriously fast.

[DaveTheRave87]

I can see what they're thinking here. If you're caught pratting about in a powerful car too many times you'll end up only being allowed to drive normal cars.

[Gad-Westy]

As a general concept, I don't think this is a terrible idea. Performance of modern cars is getting a little wild to say the least with no sign of that trend reversing any time soon. The only barrier to entry is money. If a 17 year old has deep pockets or access to someone else's deep pockets, they could go and buy a 2000bhp Rimac tomorrow.

But 2 alarm bells for the Oz solution. Firstly an online qualification sounds massively limited. Something that at least featured some level of car contro test sounds more appropriate. And secondly, turning off any driver aids results in a fine but don't most cars now have various levels of adjustment for all of these systems, not just one big on/off button? What constitutes turning it off?

[biggles330d]

Given the rampant power of some new cars and especially the immediate poke of powerful EV's, I don't think this is an entirely stupid idea.
As Pirelli used to say, power is nothing without control... and if you think you are competent enough to drive something ultra powerful enough you shouldn't have any problem passing a test to prove it.

[C5_Steve]

Gad-Westy said:

As a general concept, I don't think this is a terrible idea. Performance of modern cars is getting a little wild to say the least with no sign of that trend reversing any time soon. The only barrier to entry is money. If a 17 year old has deep pockets or access to someone else's deep pockets, they could go and buy a 2000bhp Rimac tomorrow.

But 2 alarm bells for the Oz solution. Firstly an online qualification sounds massively limited. Something that at least featured some level of car contro test sounds more appropriate. And secondly, turning off any driver aids results in a fine but don't most cars now have various levels of adjustment for all of these systems, not just one big on/off button? What constitutes turning it off?

I agree that it's not a terrible idea, especially with the progression of electric cars. Even that barrier to entry of cost is going to continue to fall over time. However, it doesn't sound like any thought has been put into this specifically with the whole "online" certification. Driving a Huracan is very different to driving a Rimac and unless these course deal with both I think it's a bit toothless.

I clip from a recent Smoking Tire podcast came back to me with this, Harris was on and he admitted that every time he drives one of the new electric hypercars around a track he's sick afterwards. Coming from someone who will happily drift a Chiron that tells you something about the performance of these cars and he's certainly not alone, I've read and listened to similar from many testers.

As for the turning off safety features, I don't agree with that and I'd be interested in what data their using to justify that. Also, don't all cars just reset when you turn the engine off? So, if pulled by the fuzz in Aus, pull over and shut off. Job done no?

[Gad-Westy]

C5_Steve said:

Gad-Westy said:

As a general concept, I don't think this is a terrible idea. Performance of modern cars is getting a little wild to say the least with no sign of that trend reversing any time soon. The only barrier to entry is money. If a 17 year old has deep pockets or access to someone else's deep pockets, they could go and buy a 2000bhp Rimac tomorrow.

But 2 alarm bells for the Oz solution. Firstly an online qualification sounds massively limited. Something that at least featured some level of car contro test sounds more appropriate. And secondly, turning off any driver aids results in a fine but don't most cars now have various levels of adjustment for all of these systems, not just one big on/off button? What constitutes turning it off?

I agree that it's not a terrible idea, especially with the progression of electric cars. Even that barrier to entry of cost is going to continue to fall over time. However, it doesn't sound like any thought has been put into this specifically with the whole "online" certification. Driving a Huracan is very different to driving a Rimac and unless these course deal with both I think it's a bit toothless.

I clip from a recent Smoking Tire podcast came back to me with this, Harris was on and he admitted that every time he drives one of the new electric hypercars around a track he's sick afterwards. Coming from someone who will happily drift a Chiron that tells you something about the performance of these cars and he's certainly not alone, I've read and listened to similar from many testers.

As for the turning off safety features, I don't agree with that and I'd be interested in what data their using to justify that. Also, don't all cars just reset when you turn the engine off? So, if pulled by the fuzz in Aus, pull over and shut off. Job done no?

I'd guess on the latter, it's probably going to be more relevant if someone has an accident and data logging shows that systems were disabled at the time.

[Silverbullet767]

The driver aids part smacks of nanny state. I'm not against additional driver training if done properly, I have completed an advanced driving course myself and I found it very beneficial, but what, if anything at all can you learn online that will help you drive a supercar?

[andy43]

First few full throttle pulls on my Tesla P100D genuinely made me go a bit funny, but the battery weight vs bhp would probably keep most EVs off the Aussies too-fast list.
You’re right about driver aids resetting on switch off - unless you binned it and the authorities interrogated the ecus I can’t see how they’d prove you’d been A Bad Person.
Sounds like the government have too much time on their hands…

[andy43]

Silverbullet767 said:

The driver aids part smacks of nanny state. I'm not against additional driver training if done properly, I have completed an advanced driving course myself and I found it very beneficial, but what, if anything at all can you learn online that will help you drive a supercar?

Ah, learning advanced driving is dead easy with the help of the internet. Watch some YouTubers revving their 650bhp clingfilm wrapped penises thru London, that teaches you all you need to know about handling POWAAAAHHH.

[samoht]

I think requiring stability control etc is unreasonable. However we all have a responsibility to be in control of our car. So if someone loses control after deactivating electronic aids, that should be considered more culpable than someone who was caught out by say road surface conditions changing.

The less obvious problem with the policy of mandating assistance stays on is that it incentivises people to choose older or less sophisticated vehicles which simply don't have any aids. Yet it's almost certainly safer to have a driver who deactivates stability control 5% of the time, than one in a similar car with no electronics at all.

Silverbullet767 said:

I'm not against additional driver training if done properly, I have completed an advanced driving course myself and I found it very beneficial, but what, if anything at all can you learn online that will help you drive a supercar?

I agree actual hands-on training is worth a lot more. However, I think there are quite a few concepts people can learn online. For example, I remember reading about the traction circle in the Gran Turismo manual and that's definitely helped me.

Actually, completing challenges in a good simulator could be a useful halfway house between in-person and purely web-based training.

[BOR]

Sounds like a good idea to me, particularly if it has an aura of glamour about it.

It might encourage other people to take the test just for the enhanced status it gives.

Could be worthwhile even for some of the run-of-the-mill EVs due to their high torque outputs.

Thumbs up, Bruce.

[anonymous-user]

Silverbullet767 said:

The driver aids part smacks of nanny state.

You have clearly never been to Australia.

1)Illegal to buy fireworks
2)Need a fire arms licence to own an air gun
3)Sun beds are banned
4)The speed limit is 100KPH virtually everywhere.
5)There is no tolerance on that 100KPH, exceed it and expect a $400 AUD fine.
6)Cigarettes are $50 AUD a packet now.

There is literally no point owning a high powered car in Australia anyway.

[anonymous-user]

Surely you can do track days there? Or are those banned as well?

I think its a good idea making the driving license more rigorous and graded. But online training? Surely they need to do skid pan, high performance driving course on tracks and runways etc? Would be a lot of fun I reckon. Probably nestled in some sort of IAM or Rospa type advanced driving training based on Roadcraft.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 2nd August 11:12

[anonymous-user]

wyson said:

Surely you can do track days there? Or are those banned as well?

I think its a good idea making the driving license more rigorous and graded. But online training? Surely they need to do skid pan, high performance driving course on tracks and runways etc? Would be a lot of fun I reckon.

Edited by wyson on Wednesday 2nd August 11:08

The driving licence is more rigorous, at least in Victoria. There are numerous rules associated with passing your driving test such as

1)Must not carry more than one peer passenger aged 16 to less than 22 excluding spouses/domestic partners and siblings/step-siblings
2)Power-to-weight ratio must not exceed 130 kW per ton, or no engine modifications after manufacture to increase performance[w]
3)You have to display red P plates for the first year and green P plates for a further 3 years
4)have a zero Blood Alcohol Concentration (BAC)

Personally, I think they are all a good idea.

[GhostWKD]

Joey Deacon said:

5)There is no tolerance on that 100KPH, exceed it and expect a $400 AUD fine.

This one still smarts, being tailgated in my little Micra hire car by road trains and still managing to get a ticket for 102kmh in a 100kph zone Good old Victoria. Still love the place though.

[charltjr]

Not sure why anyone would want to turn the nanny systems off on the public road, they are there to protect you and others.

On the track or a skidpan, sure, turn them off and fill your boots. If you’re genuinely activating any system other than traction control on the road to the point where it’s becoming intrusive then your car control needs looking at.

[hunt123]

Not good imo but probably inevitable, like in group B rallying when certain cars were banned after deaths. I do wonder whether very high power cars should be banned only for young and/or inexperienced drivers, bike licensing does this afaik.