Thursday 1st September 2005

Insurers back-pedal on scamera points

Signs of softer attitude to speeding fines emerge

---

Gatso not so costly?

Insurance companies may be softening their line on speed camera-based convictions, if the latest press release from one insurer is anything to go by.

Traditionally, being caught by a scamera not only costs you fines and licence points, insurers have a habit of jacking up your premiums too. But Hyperformance, which specialises in insuring high performance vehicles, has just issued a statement saying that:

"We will always try to take the nature of the offence and an individual’s past driving record into account. It’s not fair to base premiums solely on points alone: we are committed to looking at how points come about rather than just how many a driver may have."

This is prefaced by a recognition that:

"Speed cameras have long been unpopular and unloved. We fully support the notion of making our roads safer and limiting speeds where necessary, but are concerned by reports that suggest cameras are being used in place of other more effective road safety measures.

"Confidence in the effectiveness of speed cameras is diminishing following evidence that they may have actually contributed to some crashes, and that in some cases, an engineering solution, such as improving junctions or erecting warning signs, would have been a better road safety option.

"Hertfordshire, for instance, increased its number of speed cameras by 24 per cent between 2003-2004 and the road accident death rate in the county actually rose by 34 per cent, whereas in Durham, where there are no speed cameras, road death rates fell by 25 per cent."

This may all be fairly self-serving stuff -- but given that over two million drivers got points from scameras last year, it does suggest that reality is creeping in, and a lighter touch is being adopted.

Image courtesy www.speedcam.co.uk

[PhantomPH]

Funny, my wife and I were commenting to the opposite, just last night.

Used to be that 3 points made no difference (we had first had experience as we were both insurance brokers at the time), but these days they make on average about £40 increase to a policy.

We assumed this actually meant that now insurers realised more people we getting points, they could 'tap in' to this lucrative aspect of driving.

P~

>> Edited by PhantomPH on Thursday 1st September 12:25

[apache]

Once again, how much evidence does it take to show a piece of legislation is not working?

[jasandjules]

apache said:

Once again, how much evidence does it take to show a piece of legislation is not working?

Enough to ensure that the revenue stream can be replaced......... People can get killed on the roads, so what. Plenty of new drivers to take their place and pay their scamera fines.

[chris watton]

PhantomPH said:

Funny, my wife and I were commenting to the opposite, just last night. Used to be that 3 points made no difference (we had first had experience as we were both insurance brokers at the time), but these days they make on average about £40 increase to a policy. We assumed this actually meant that now insurers realised more people we getting points, they could 'tap in' to this lucrative aspect of driving. P~ >> Edited by PhantomPH on Thursday 1st September 12:25

This is exactly what I have found over the past few years, once upon a time, 3 points did nothing to your premium, now, almost all insurance companies squeeze an extra £30-50 out of each new premium with a speed camera 'offence'! They're all cashing in on the motorist (general public)

[nonegreen]

Look FFS get a grip, these people are insurers, ie they are providing you with a service. The first question I ask of any company now is what is their policy on "the silliness" Ie if they believe any of the following to be true they do not get my business:

Speed Kills
Speed humps save lives
Global warming is man made
The liberal democrats have a point

They are a supplier FFS ask the questions and ditch them if they supply the wrong answers. Direct Line used to insure my house, not any more, and the MD knows what I think of him too he is Low life scum.

[chris watton]

nonegreen said:

. Direct Line used to insure my house, not any more, and the MD knows what I think of him too he is Low life scum.

LOL, ditto!

[PhantomPH]

Isn't there a sudden 'plague' of un-insured drivers anyway??

Certainly more than ever before, I have head about measures being brought in to catch un-insured drivers and certain ad campaigns (especially those involving 'identical twin brothers') would have you believe un-insured drivers make up every other motorist.

Actually, what am I saying? If its THAT easy to have no insurance, then why am I paying for mine?

[mmm-five]

I've been with Liverpool Victoria for the last three years and they asked if I had any non-SP convictions - when I said no and asked if they wanted the dates of the SP convictions they said the didn't take them into account for risk evaluation anyway, but would take a note of them if I requested.

How can you tell whether an SP conviction is from speed camera, Vascar, SPECS, plod with laser or Talivan?

[PhantomPH]

mmm-five said:

How can you tell whether an SP conviction is from speed camera, Vascar, SPECS, plod with laser or Talivan?

You can't as far as I know. They are simply noted on your licence as the code and number of points and date - most commonly an SP30.

[mmm-five]

PhantomPH said:

mmm-five said: How can you tell whether an SP conviction is from speed camera, Vascar, SPECS, plod with laser or Talivan? You can't as far as I know. They are simply noted on your licence as the code and number of points and date - most commonly an SP30.

Exactly my point - how then can 'Hyperformance' claim to ignore 'speed camera derived' points then - unless they mean that they are going to ignore all SP code points (hopefully).

[toni896]

maybe they mean the sp30/50 with £60 (FP) will be ignored and if you have >4 points or >£60 fine they will want to know why ?

[james_j]

"...Hertfordshire, for instance, increased its number of speed cameras by 24 per cent between 2003-2004 and the road accident death rate in the county actually rose by 34 per cent, whereas in Durham, where there are no speed cameras, road death rates fell by 25 per cent..."

Only the truly insane or those with a vested interest in the revenue from speed control would think a driver was dangerous just because they had been seen driving over the many low speed limits we have in the UK.

[miniman]

3 points just cost me £160 from Admiral on my MX5 policy. I then asked to cancel it. They will do so, but with 9 months to run, they will only refund £120 out of a £450 policy because "we've already charged you the £160 for your points". Bastards.

So, the renewal paperwork for the A4 came through this morning, also from Admiral, also up by a similar amount. Adrian Flux just bettered them by over £200 (30%!) so I will take great pleasure in telling them where to stick their policy.

Seems that the loading on new quotes is much less than on existing policies, when you get points.

[sgt^roc]

This is very refreshing but very professional of them to avoid the political argument in this equation, but we are dealing with a government that feels the recent bombing in London were not related to the war in Iraq and would most likely say that the floods in USA are not connected to that Hurricane, It is sad to say but when you are operating an hidden agenda beside a bogus claims then evidence such as Durham will not be taken seriously because as it would a given that there claim would begin to unravel.

[sgt^roc]

miniman said:

3 points just cost me £160 from Admiral on my MX5 policy. I then asked to cancel it. They will do so, but with 9 months to run, they will only refund £120 out of a £450 policy because "we've already charged you the £160 for your points". Bastards. So, the renewal paperwork for the A4 came through this morning, also from Admiral, also up by a similar amount. Adrian Flux just bettered them by over £200 (30%!) so I will take great pleasure in telling them where to stick their policy. Seems that the loading on new quotes is much less than on existing policies, when you get points.

you gotta pay for stupid fukin parrot m8 thats why you paid the 160

[stubydoo]

This is exactly what I have found over the past few years, once upon a time, 3 points did nothing to your premium, now, almost all insurance companies squeeze an extra £30-50 out of each new premium with a speed camera 'offence'! They're all cashing in on the motorist (general public)

I too was a victim of this - copped a sp50 for doing 101 on M1 - 6 points and a 340 quid fine - Norwich Union rewarded me with a 55 quid LOWER premium - when asked, told me it made me " a more dutiful driver " !!! Work that one out!!!!

[keng]

I recently had my renewal notice come through and was amazed at the price, so went online and got a new quote, using the existing details.
It came in nearly £100 different, then remembered that I had been flashed and had those lovely 3 points on my licence.

Phoned the company up to by the new policy and amend the points part.

SP30 + £60 fine = no increase… I was gob smacked to say the least, but from what I can tell, a lot of the companies out there are ignoring the first sp30 you have. It’s only when you seem to be clocking them up rather fast that they start to rub their hands together.

I did ask about the renewal premium and why it was so high, and the reply was disappointing…

Each new policy is given an incentive discount, this is covered by the existing customers that don’t shop around but just accept the new premium…???

Who in their right mind just accepts a renewal with out checking the rest of the market???

[WildCat]

nonegreen said:

Look FFS get a grip, these people are insurers, ie they are providing you with a service. The first question I ask of any company now is what is their policy on "the silliness" Ie if they believe any of the following to be true they do not get my business: Speed Kills Speed humps save lives Global warming is man made The liberal democrats have a point They are a supplier FFS ask the questions and ditch them if they supply the wrong answers. Direct Line used to insure my house, not any more, and the MD knows what I think of him too he is Low life scum.

I would not entertain the word of that company in my household. ist the company who tried to squirm out of their obligation to me - as VICTIM - all those year ago! They coughed up eventually though.

ja - we ask lot of question - we have reasonable insurers - or so we are led to believe



>> Edited by WildCat on Friday 2nd September 07:41

[james_j]

Insurance companies know very well that you're not suddenly more likely to crash just because of a few points. Recent studies have proved this.

They have their own figures on accident likelyhood and a challenge to reveal them would be interesting if it were to produce a result (which I doubt).

Any companies who increase premiums becaue of points are doing so just as an excuse to bring in more money, they can't come out with any other reason and justify it.

[deva link]

mmm-five said:

I've been with Liverpool Victoria for the last three years and they asked if I had any non-SP convictions - when I said no and asked if they wanted the dates of the SP convictions they said the didn't take them into account for risk evaluation anyway, but would take a note of them if I requested.

I recently took insurance with Liverpool Victoria (also known as Frizzell) and they wouldn't even note my SP30 - they only want to know if you've been banned for any single incident. (I *think* that applies for all offences too, not just speeding).