Discussion
I have an older non date sub.
I’m thinking of a few modifications, some reversible, as my eyes aren’t as good as they were and I also like the look of the milsub.
[1] Switch to aftermarket broadsword type hands as seen on the milsub (reproductions).
[2] Relume the above new hands and hour markers on the existing face to match (or buy a second hand face and relume this).
Any suggestions which after market hands would fit a 1991 sub / suppliers?
I’ve found a relume firm in Northumbria that could then do the work for me.
This is the kind of thing I’m aiming for, I’m not too bothered about making it a full homage though….….
I’m thinking of a few modifications, some reversible, as my eyes aren’t as good as they were and I also like the look of the milsub.
[1] Switch to aftermarket broadsword type hands as seen on the milsub (reproductions).
[2] Relume the above new hands and hour markers on the existing face to match (or buy a second hand face and relume this).
Any suggestions which after market hands would fit a 1991 sub / suppliers?
I’ve found a relume firm in Northumbria that could then do the work for me.
This is the kind of thing I’m aiming for, I’m not too bothered about making it a full homage though….….
1991 would be a 14060, right? Not a 5513?
Lots of people will say not to touch it but I have a 16610LN (Black) on a blue dial, blue bezel and blue NATO. I like blue and it's all reversible. Just keep the original parts.
If your watch was a 5513, this would be 'easy' as loads of people build MilSub homages using the 1520 movement.
What I don't know is whether the dimensions of the 14060 are different in any significant way.
I know some folks have built them with Omega Broadsword hands but I have no idea what specific model they were from.
I'd probably start by talking to some of the ebay providers to see if they know whether they work with the 14060 Cal.3000 movement, like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/312684168097?hash=item4...
The relume should be reasonably 'easy'.
A Google suggests this has been done before: https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2...
Lots of people will say not to touch it but I have a 16610LN (Black) on a blue dial, blue bezel and blue NATO. I like blue and it's all reversible. Just keep the original parts.
If your watch was a 5513, this would be 'easy' as loads of people build MilSub homages using the 1520 movement.
What I don't know is whether the dimensions of the 14060 are different in any significant way.
I know some folks have built them with Omega Broadsword hands but I have no idea what specific model they were from.
I'd probably start by talking to some of the ebay providers to see if they know whether they work with the 14060 Cal.3000 movement, like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/312684168097?hash=item4...
The relume should be reasonably 'easy'.
A Google suggests this has been done before: https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2...
Thank you for the response, it’s a 14060 I believe being a 1991 (I’ve assumed this, it came with no box and papers but from a local specialist dealer). It has the white gold hour marker surrounds versus just the lume.
There’s a specialist in Northumberland that can do the relume, he is also up for the hand swap.
It’s a good point about the Omega hands, I’ve a couple of Seiko modified watches with Broadsword type hands and I’ll also look into this, your link is exactly the kind of thing I’m looking for. I’m hoping the spindles are universal as I want the mod to last and there to be no detrimental effect to the “real” bits.
Also a couple of older dials on eBay from a Canadian seller but they are very low cost relatively so not sure if real, so I may just relume my current dial tbh?
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?u...
I’ve noticed there is a tiny bit of residual lume left active but it’s not readable anymore.
While I’d love a MilSub, I don’t have anything like that kind of money! Let me rephrase that - if I sold everything I owned and worked until I drop - I still wouldn’t be able to afford a milsub!
I’ve had a few subs over the years, sold them on, I’m happy with an older used one from here on. A few changes and it will do me, keep coming back to the non date sub to be honest….
There’s a specialist in Northumberland that can do the relume, he is also up for the hand swap.
It’s a good point about the Omega hands, I’ve a couple of Seiko modified watches with Broadsword type hands and I’ll also look into this, your link is exactly the kind of thing I’m looking for. I’m hoping the spindles are universal as I want the mod to last and there to be no detrimental effect to the “real” bits.
Also a couple of older dials on eBay from a Canadian seller but they are very low cost relatively so not sure if real, so I may just relume my current dial tbh?
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?u...
I’ve noticed there is a tiny bit of residual lume left active but it’s not readable anymore.
While I’d love a MilSub, I don’t have anything like that kind of money! Let me rephrase that - if I sold everything I owned and worked until I drop - I still wouldn’t be able to afford a milsub!
I’ve had a few subs over the years, sold them on, I’m happy with an older used one from here on. A few changes and it will do me, keep coming back to the non date sub to be honest….
Keep us updated - I love that people mod their watches!
A 14060 service dial should be pretty cheap, 2nd hand. You could then mess about with the markers/lume with that.
I don't think anyone ever faked the 14060 so the dial value isn't high on the 2nd hand market.
Have a look on ebay and set a search up.
I think the bezel inserts are cheap for the same reason. They're slightly different dimensions to 16610s and since that size bezel was never faked, you can find them on ebay reasonably cheaply.
Basically... if you can hunt down some hands that work, keep the rest of the original parts spare and untouched and use 2nd hand ones to mod.
A 14060 service dial should be pretty cheap, 2nd hand. You could then mess about with the markers/lume with that.
I don't think anyone ever faked the 14060 so the dial value isn't high on the 2nd hand market.
Have a look on ebay and set a search up.
I think the bezel inserts are cheap for the same reason. They're slightly different dimensions to 16610s and since that size bezel was never faked, you can find them on ebay reasonably cheaply.
Basically... if you can hunt down some hands that work, keep the rest of the original parts spare and untouched and use 2nd hand ones to mod.
Nice condition Flat-4 insert if you wanted to replace yours:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204440148722?mkcid=16&a...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204440148722?mkcid=16&a...
Thank you for the responses.
Would anyone know if the Rolex hand set specification for the 3000 calibre movement in the 14060 is 120 / 80 / 20?
I’ve found several sets of aftermarket hands but information is vague as to if they will fit.
If the 3000 = 5513 specification wise I could be OK, but it’s not clear if that’s the case either…..
It hinges on the size of the hole for the spindle mount and the length of the hands…..
Would anyone know if the Rolex hand set specification for the 3000 calibre movement in the 14060 is 120 / 80 / 20?
I’ve found several sets of aftermarket hands but information is vague as to if they will fit.
If the 3000 = 5513 specification wise I could be OK, but it’s not clear if that’s the case either…..
It hinges on the size of the hole for the spindle mount and the length of the hands…..
This guy sells a few variations of lume shade/patina sword hands: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235064313943?hash=item3...
That seller really ought to know the answer to your question as I think he builds MilSub homages.
Yes, when I said "dimensions" in my first post, I don't know if the holes in the hands fit the cannon pinions or whatever the shaft is called or whether 5513/17 hands would be 'too short' for a slightly larger (I think) 14060 dial.
I am unlikely to have a better answer than Google... You could try The Rolex Forum but I am not sure how receptive they would be to a project like this!
That seller really ought to know the answer to your question as I think he builds MilSub homages.
Yes, when I said "dimensions" in my first post, I don't know if the holes in the hands fit the cannon pinions or whatever the shaft is called or whether 5513/17 hands would be 'too short' for a slightly larger (I think) 14060 dial.
I am unlikely to have a better answer than Google... You could try The Rolex Forum but I am not sure how receptive they would be to a project like this!
Will do Dom,
It’s this chap I’m in touch with regards the lume replacement and possible hand switch, the calibre in this watch might / might not be the same as the one in the 5513 so going to check locally what’s feasible.
Lume on mine is all but dead which prompted the search, then the rabbit hole of if the watch is coming apart anyway, might as well do the sword hands so I can see it better….
That lovely old used 5513 in the other thread I think is probably a perfect watch after a mil sub….
https://www.alchemistrelumer.co.uk/about
It’s this chap I’m in touch with regards the lume replacement and possible hand switch, the calibre in this watch might / might not be the same as the one in the 5513 so going to check locally what’s feasible.
Lume on mine is all but dead which prompted the search, then the rabbit hole of if the watch is coming apart anyway, might as well do the sword hands so I can see it better….
That lovely old used 5513 in the other thread I think is probably a perfect watch after a mil sub….
https://www.alchemistrelumer.co.uk/about
The Alchemist comes highly recommended!
5513 is a Cal.1520 and the 14060 is a Cal.3000 so whilst similar, they're definitely not the same. Doesn't mean hands won't fit though. Either way, can always open the holes up or nip them up a bit to shrink them. A fudge but not unusual!
Fingers crossed it all comes together easily!
5513 is a Cal.1520 and the 14060 is a Cal.3000 so whilst similar, they're definitely not the same. Doesn't mean hands won't fit though. Either way, can always open the holes up or nip them up a bit to shrink them. A fudge but not unusual!
Fingers crossed it all comes together easily!
Any update, OP?
Found this on the Rolex Forum:
https://www.rolexforums.com/attachment.php?attachm...
In this thread: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=15939...
Found this on the Rolex Forum:
https://www.rolexforums.com/attachment.php?attachm...
In this thread: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=15939...
Hi Dom,
Sadly not, none of the vendors can confirm if their aftermarket hands fit well on the post 5513 mechanism, and it’s a bit of a risk to pull it apart on a guess.
Was just thinking about this today as it happens, I’m going to drop Dom Hackett a note and see what he might suggest.
My eyes are getting so bad the mod would help me see then watch better anyway, it’s the lume replacement I’m also very keen to sort.
I saw the below on the internet, wondering if the lume can be built up to cover the white gold markers on the current face and if a change of second hand colour might be too much…
Sadly not, none of the vendors can confirm if their aftermarket hands fit well on the post 5513 mechanism, and it’s a bit of a risk to pull it apart on a guess.
Was just thinking about this today as it happens, I’m going to drop Dom Hackett a note and see what he might suggest.
My eyes are getting so bad the mod would help me see then watch better anyway, it’s the lume replacement I’m also very keen to sort.
I saw the below on the internet, wondering if the lume can be built up to cover the white gold markers on the current face and if a change of second hand colour might be too much…
So that's a 5513 with puffy lume.
I wouldn't build the lume up over the markers, I would have a chat with the Alchemist or someone similar, with the intent to perhaps get a 2nd hand dial off ebay, possibly from someone like Fiery Gems https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trkparms=folent... who seem to list new parts every day. Have the white gold markers removed and then lume directly onto the dial. But I don't know how complex that would be without lume plots to bind to or as a 'template' for the lume.
A red Yachtmaster second hand could be an interesting mod, I am considering it after seeing some of the watches on that Rolex Forum thread.
The sword hands fitment is an interesting one... Someone must know! Could even message that guy in the Rolex Forum thread or post on there to ask?
I got glasses for the first time this weekend... have never been able to read the text on my watches before!
I wouldn't build the lume up over the markers, I would have a chat with the Alchemist or someone similar, with the intent to perhaps get a 2nd hand dial off ebay, possibly from someone like Fiery Gems https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trkparms=folent... who seem to list new parts every day. Have the white gold markers removed and then lume directly onto the dial. But I don't know how complex that would be without lume plots to bind to or as a 'template' for the lume.
A red Yachtmaster second hand could be an interesting mod, I am considering it after seeing some of the watches on that Rolex Forum thread.
The sword hands fitment is an interesting one... Someone must know! Could even message that guy in the Rolex Forum thread or post on there to ask?
I got glasses for the first time this weekend... have never been able to read the text on my watches before!
Thanks Dom,
That’s interesting, didn’t think of removing the markers and hadn’t heard of puffy lume before!
Looking at mine, building over the gold markers would produce a similar effect to that pic above.
Prompted by your message I’ve pinged Dom (H) for a chat in the new year to see what I can do, he lives in the heart of watch land and if it can be done, he’ll know someone. Maybe even Omega broadsword hands etc, all reversible but can’t see me selling this one tbh.
I did post an image of a watch with a red second hand as you mention but struggled to upload it, trying again below…
I’m also hoping to keep the costs down on the job as it’s pointless otherwise to mess with an otherwise good watch….
That’s interesting, didn’t think of removing the markers and hadn’t heard of puffy lume before!
Looking at mine, building over the gold markers would produce a similar effect to that pic above.
Prompted by your message I’ve pinged Dom (H) for a chat in the new year to see what I can do, he lives in the heart of watch land and if it can be done, he’ll know someone. Maybe even Omega broadsword hands etc, all reversible but can’t see me selling this one tbh.
I did post an image of a watch with a red second hand as you mention but struggled to upload it, trying again below…
I’m also hoping to keep the costs down on the job as it’s pointless otherwise to mess with an otherwise good watch….
dom9 said:
Any update, OP?
Found this on the Rolex Forum:
https://www.rolexforums.com/attachment.php?attachm...
In this thread: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=15939...
Sorry Dom I see the thread but not the attachment, would you mind a screenshot or the thread page reference? If they are U.K. I’ll get in touch with them….Found this on the Rolex Forum:
https://www.rolexforums.com/attachment.php?attachm...
In this thread: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=15939...
Ah, you may need to sign up for an account at TRF to see all the pics - well worth doing. They'll know over there was can be done if you start a thread in the vintage section. I know Dom H well and he is a top man but I am not sure how deep in the modified scene he is.
Here is the TRF attachment:
I am still not convinced luming over the markers is a great idea. You could see if anyone does a replica dial and try it, or a 2nd hand dial and see if it works and, if it doesn't, take the markers off and try it that way.
Someone like MQ could probably make you a dial to your specs: https://vintagewatchesmq.com/minhquy/index.php?pag...
Here is the TRF attachment:
I am still not convinced luming over the markers is a great idea. You could see if anyone does a replica dial and try it, or a 2nd hand dial and see if it works and, if it doesn't, take the markers off and try it that way.
Someone like MQ could probably make you a dial to your specs: https://vintagewatchesmq.com/minhquy/index.php?pag...
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