Uphill with shared lane

[Cyberprog]

The post about single track lanes got me thinking - I live in an area where there are a few three lane hills (R139 climbing/crawler lanes) - with the uphill lane allowing the left and centre lanes to be used, and the downhill lane allowing the centre and right lanes to be used! (Dash/Solid on downhill, so uphill may not cross, R128).

If you are established in the centre lane, do you have right of way at that point? I was being overtaken the other night and saw someone join the centre lane going uphill while the downhill vehicle was established. The uphill quickly got out of the way again, but I was wondering if the rule of "vehicle traveling uphill has priority" applies in this instance? I assume not as R155 explicitly specifies "Single-track roads".

R162 says "you should make sure the road is sufficiently clear ahead" and "there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake." and R167 says "DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users."

[TheDrownedApe]

urgh, these are for the brave of heart coming downhill. In my experience i only use them downhill when the uphill is completely empty.

I fear for oncoming motorists not understanding the, quite simple, road markings.

[Retroman]

I would imagine who ever is in the lane first has priority, since the person joining the lane needs to ensure it is clear and safe to do and must give priority to traffic already in that lane.

[Zeeky]

This has nothing to do with uphill or downhill. The centre line road markings are offset in this case creating two lanes uphill and one lane downhill. The solid white line on the uphill-traffic side of the road prohibits this traffic from crossing into the opposing downhill traffic. The broken white line on the downhill-traffic side allows traffic to cross into the opposing uphill traffic but, as always, the oncoming trafffic has priority.

[Roger Irrelevant]

I don't have any of these near me, but I do remember seeing some in the south-west (Devon probably) - is that where you are OP? I also remember thinking 'Christ almighty that's mad' - I can't believe they're still about but I assume there's a good reason. I'm not even super-keen to overtake where there are two uphill lanes and one down, with a solid white line for the downhill. Twice I've been in the uphill overtaking lane on the stretch of the A66 between Threlkeld and the Troutbeck junction when somebody in the downhill lane has decided that they'll use the middle lane too, contrary to the very obvious solid white line they needed to cross to do so. Cue two pairs of heavily shat pants on each occasion.

[mac96]

Zeeky said:

This has nothing to do with uphill or downhill. The centre line road markings are offset in this case creating two lanes uphill and one lane downhill. The solid white line on the uphill-traffic side of the road prohibits this traffic from crossing into the opposing downhill traffic. The broken white line on the downhill-traffic side allows traffic to cross into the opposing uphill traffic but, as always, the oncoming trafffic has priority.

That's true, but most of the examples I can think of (such as Broadway Hill, a section of the ring road around Mold or a stretch of the A470 north of Blaenau) are on hills, and they seem to be there to assist traffic to pass slow vehicles going up hill.
I remember longer stretches of 3 lane road on the flat, but the ones I knew have gone. Are there any left? Not counting the suicidal unofficial ones, like parts of the A5 West of Shrewsbury.

[donkmeister]

Zeeky said:

This has nothing to do with uphill or downhill. The centre line road markings are offset in this case creating two lanes uphill and one lane downhill. The solid white line on the uphill-traffic side of the road prohibits this traffic from crossing into the opposing downhill traffic. The broken white line on the downhill-traffic side allows traffic to cross into the opposing uphill traffic but, as always, the oncoming trafffic has priority.

This.

If you are travelling in the downhill direction, you should treat the uphill direction as you would on any other SC, i.e. not overtake until there is a suitable gap in traffic across the entire opposite side of the road.

My area is fairly flat so crawler lanes are rare or non-existent, but we have a variation of this problem where old three-lane roads were turned into two lane roads, and some absolute womb-brooms overtake into oncoming traffic.

[Pica-Pica]

A lot of these type of questions mention ‘right of way’ and ‘priority’.
Right of way; simply means you have the right to be on a piece of road or land. It is ‘patch-driven’ not direction-driven or anything else.
Priority; means you have precedence over some other road user (usually direction-driven).

[vaud]

Here is one in North Leeds. It is uphill (but not that steep - modern lorries and buses manage it fine)

[QuickQuack]

I presume you mean one of these, this particular one being the A6, near Rothwell in Northamptonshire:





Here is another example, this time the A5, between Weedon and Pattishall, also in Northamptonshire:





It is absolutely clear in both cases, more so on A5 as it has double solid lines separating uphill and downhill traffic, that 2 lanes are for going uphill, and one for going downhill. It's the uphill carriageway which widens and expands into 2 lanes, while the downhill sections remain single lane. If there's a vehicle going uphill in middle lane, whether there's a vehicle in uphill lane 1 or not, a vehicle travelling downhill mustn't enter it.

Cyberprog said:

If you are established in the centre lane, do you have right of way at that point? I was being overtaken the other night and saw someone join the centre lane going uphill while the downhill vehicle was established. The uphill quickly got out of the way again, but I was wondering if the rule of "vehicle traveling uphill has priority" applies in this instance? I assume not as R155 explicitly specifies "Single-track roads".

R162 says "you should make sure the road is sufficiently clear ahead" and "there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake." and R167 says "DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users."

R155 doesn't come into it, that's only for single track roads where either uphill or downhill vehicles have true shared priority. That's emphatically not the case in these situations; both uphill lanes are primarily for uphill vehicles. Downhill vehicles may only use them if and only if that doesn't bring them into conflict with uphill vehicles.

In the example you've given, the uphill vehicle took the pragmatic and sensible option - sigh, acknowledge there are plenty of idiots, move back, don't have an accident, don't dent your car/be late/risk injury/put up your insurance premium because you're right, but simply arrive 5 minutes later and in 1 piece... Otherwise, downhill car was 100% at fault.

[TonyF1]

Downhill would need to cross the solid white line to use the uphill lane so no it’s not a case of use it if no conflict. This road layout is for uphill traffic to overtake slow moving traffic.

[vaud]

TonyF1 said:

Downhill would need to cross the solid white line to use the uphill lane so no it’s not a case of use it if no conflict. This road layout is for uphill traffic to overtake slow moving traffic.

Look at the example I gave; there is a downhill section with a dashed white line on the downhill.

[TonyF1]

I don’t think the example you gave is a crawler lane in the true sense as it’s not very steep, The other examples are designed specifically for overtaking slow traffic on uphill sections hence the solid white line.

[vaud]

TonyF1 said:

I don’t think the example you gave is a crawler lane in the true sense as it’s not very steep, The other examples are designed specifically for overtaking slow traffic on uphill sections hence the solid white line.

The Google map picture is misleading.

https://goo.gl/maps/Fm7if361DpVgrtSW6

It is a long slow hill out of Otley (bottom of the valley) towards Leeds. It is a crawler lane, probably needed 50 years ago but less so these days.

[Dixy]

As sponsored by the organ transplant society.

[Cyberprog]

TonyF1 said:

Downhill would need to cross the solid white line to use the uphill lane so no it’s not a case of use it if no conflict. This road layout is for uphill traffic to overtake slow moving traffic.

On the example I gave, the downhill has the ability to use the middle (and technically, right most lanes) due to a dashed line on the left and solid white on the right.

Roger Irrelevant said:

I don't have any of these near me, but I do remember seeing some in the south-west (Devon probably) - is that where you are OP? I also remember thinking 'Christ almighty that's mad' - I can't believe they're still about but I assume there's a good reason. I'm not even super-keen to overtake where there are two uphill lanes and one down, with a solid white line for the downhill. Twice I've been in the uphill overtaking lane on the stretch of the A66 between Threlkeld and the Troutbeck junction when somebody in the downhill lane has decided that they'll use the middle lane too, contrary to the very obvious solid white line they needed to cross to do so. Cue two pairs of heavily shat pants on each occasion.

Yep, I'm south-west based, my local example is the A38 near Thornbury. I don't blame you for being upset on that one, solid lines meant downhill was firmly in the wrong there!

Zeeky said:

This has nothing to do with uphill or downhill. The centre line road markings are offset in this case creating two lanes uphill and one lane downhill. The solid white line on the uphill-traffic side of the road prohibits this traffic from crossing into the opposing downhill traffic. The broken white line on the downhill-traffic side allows traffic to cross into the opposing uphill traffic but, as always, the oncoming trafffic has priority.

Oncoming being the vehicle that is first established in the lane?

QuickQuack said:

R155 doesn't come into it, that's only for single track roads where either uphill or downhill vehicles have true shared priority. That's emphatically not the case in these situations; both uphill lanes are primarily for uphill vehicles. Downhill vehicles may only use them if and only if that doesn't bring them into conflict with uphill vehicles.

Agreed.

QuickQuack said:

In the example you've given, the uphill vehicle took the pragmatic and sensible option - sigh, acknowledge there are plenty of idiots, move back, don't have an accident, don't dent your car/be late/risk injury/put up your insurance premium because you're right, but simply arrive 5 minutes later and in 1 piece... Otherwise, downhill car was 100% at fault.

I'm not convinced at this, as the uphill vehicle should have checked the lane was clear before pulling into it - they did not as the overtaking vehicle downhill was well established. Uphill just appeared out from behind a lorry as soon as the lane gave him the option.

Retroman said:

I would imagine who ever is in the lane first has priority, since the person joining the lane needs to ensure it is clear and safe to do and must give priority to traffic already in that lane.

That is my overall feeling here.

[Canon_Fodder]

Good example from the A5 in North Wales.

Uphill traffic can't do a double overtake in the 3rd lane, but apart from that it's Game On

https://goo.gl/maps/tqFShUnvtCue7Vsc8

[Solocle]

mac96 said:

That's true, but most of the examples I can think of (such as Broadway Hill, a section of the ring road around Mold or a stretch of the A470 north of Blaenau) are on hills, and they seem to be there to assist traffic to pass slow vehicles going up hill.
I remember longer stretches of 3 lane road on the flat, but the ones I knew have gone. Are there any left? Not counting the suicidal unofficial ones, like parts of the A5 West of Shrewsbury.

There are a couple of bits of S3 dotted around - I used a section on the A39 to overtake two years ago.

Most have been redesignated as S2+1 or WS2, by either painting a solid line on one side or reducing the road to two wide lanes respectively.

[donkmeister]

What's the consensus on what should happen to the cretins who use the overtaking lane to pull just past the slow lorry, then slow down to baulk the many, many cars behind them from also passing the lorry?

[boyse7en]

If there is a dotted line from the single lane downhill to the centre lane then a car has as much right to use it as one going uphill. The rule is not to move into the lane if another vehicle is already established in the lane.
We had several sections like this on the A361 near here. Unfortunately many drivers didn't know the rules and assumed that only uphill traffic could use the centre lane, resulting in numerous accidents and a number of fatalities.

To try and reduce the number of accidents, they changed the road markings, changing the dotted/solid line between the downhill lane and the centre into a double solid line so that drivers heading downhill were no longer allowed to use the centre lane

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9797971,-3.6454341...