Modern car manufacturing process
Discussion
goldar said:
From what I gather, car manufacturers are using MMA glue (methy methacylate adhesive) to put cars together. Do they still have welds, or are we relying entirely on glue?
Hypothetically speaking, could one replace panels using glue only?
I'd say not, on cars not designed for such construction the welded joint area is probably not sufficient to be bonded. Hypothetically speaking, could one replace panels using glue only?
I'm sure someone has tried but I wouldn't fancy being the crash test dummy in a collision.
Bobupndown said:
goldar said:
From what I gather, car manufacturers are using MMA glue (methy methacylate adhesive) to put cars together. Do they still have welds, or are we relying entirely on glue?
Hypothetically speaking, could one replace panels using glue only?
I'd say not, on cars not designed for such construction the welded joint area is probably not sufficient to be bonded. Hypothetically speaking, could one replace panels using glue only?
I'm sure someone has tried but I wouldn't fancy being the crash test dummy in a collision.
Armstrongs videos, a mix of spot welds, seam sealer and some adhesives.
Bobupndown said:
I'd say not, on cars not designed for such construction the welded joint area is probably not sufficient to be bonded.
I'm sure someone has tried but I wouldn't fancy being the crash test dummy in a collision.
Yeah, I'd imagine that the interfaces between parts would need to be different for glueing vs welding.I'm sure someone has tried but I wouldn't fancy being the crash test dummy in a collision.
There is a whole construction method known as 'Elise-style' but also on Evora/Emira, VH Aston Martins, A110 and quite a few more, i.e. aluminium structure mainly glued, supported by some rivets and/or welds. Rivets can be a convenient way to fasten parts together while the glue sets, if nothing else, AIUI.
I've not heard of glueing being used on steel bodied cars, presumably because welding steel is more satisfactory than ally, whereas the latter has to be thicker to avoid being distorted by the heat. So not sure what the benefit of glueing steel is, but it might be slightly lighter, I guess it'd be lower energy if that matters.
Since modern aircraft are assembled with adhesives (check out Henkel and 3M) you'll certainly find them used in car manufacturing. At the simplest level disc pad friction material is bonded to the steel backing plate.
One advantage with adhesives is the stress/force is evenly distributed across the adhesive rather than concentrated at specific rivet points. Where both are used together the rivets are simply holding the surfaces in correct position while the adhesive cures.
One advantage with adhesives is the stress/force is evenly distributed across the adhesive rather than concentrated at specific rivet points. Where both are used together the rivets are simply holding the surfaces in correct position while the adhesive cures.
CambsBill said:
Jaguar certainly used rivets on the XJ, and I'm guessing on anything else with an aluminium body
Another example could be the Matt Armstrong 911 GT3 RS. Rivets on the aluminium front tub and wings. https://youtu.be/2BJ7SVCNPwU?si=gikfk96l_9-tyeWp
Edited by oldaudi on Saturday 26th August 22:14
Pistom said:
Vehicles have been bonded all the way back to the Mosquito if not further.
The Mosquito is so clever, because they used wood from different trees glued together, eg birch plywood (high tensile strength) on the outsides, with balsa (low strength and very light) in the middle, all glued together in a sandwich. And then spruce etc - basically they used the variety of types of wood to pick one with precisely the required properties in each part, making the whole thing light while still having the required strength.No wonder Goering was pissed!
CambsBill said:
HelldogBE said:
Puddenchucker said:
Some use a combination of adhesive and rivets.
Rivets? Not in main stream cars, but definitely a combination of spot welding and bonding...Page 28 of attached. "Lightweight aluminium panels are bonded together with a super-strong adhesive, then punched with zinc-coated, boron steel rivets that compress the adhesive to form an airtight bond for phenomenal strength and rigidity."
www.jaguar.co.uk/content/dam/jdx/pdfs/uk/JGGL_FTYP...
samoht said:
The Mosquito is so clever, because they used wood from different trees glued together, eg birch plywood (high tensile strength) on the outsides, with balsa (low strength and very light) in the middle, all glued together in a sandwich. And then spruce etc - basically they used the variety of types of wood to pick one with precisely the required properties in each part, making the whole thing light while still having the required strength.
No wonder Goering was pissed!
Amazing engineering. No wonder Goering was pissed!
There’s a lot of ‘behind-the-scenes’ type footage from McLaren when they were building the 420C where a lot of the parts are bonded in place (although as the car used a carbon tub for most of its rigidity as I understand). This was a while ago now so I guess a lot of OEMs have developed the technique.
Puddenchucker said:
As does the F-Type.
Page 28 of attached. "Lightweight aluminium panels are bonded together with a super-strong adhesive, then punched with zinc-coated, boron steel rivets that compress the adhesive to form an airtight bond for phenomenal strength and rigidity."
www.jaguar.co.uk/content/dam/jdx/pdfs/uk/JGGL_FTYP...
In 2014 I had a Jaguar factory tour after ordering my XFR. They took us around the F-Type production line and told us the aluminium would fail before the adhesive.Page 28 of attached. "Lightweight aluminium panels are bonded together with a super-strong adhesive, then punched with zinc-coated, boron steel rivets that compress the adhesive to form an airtight bond for phenomenal strength and rigidity."
www.jaguar.co.uk/content/dam/jdx/pdfs/uk/JGGL_FTYP...
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