Is this sign confusing?
Discussion
I don't think so, no.
You didn't say what day she got the ticket but the sign says she needs a permit to park there between 6:30pm and 8pm (Mon-Fri).
I assume it's been done like that to allow people who live there to park when they get back from work and for others to park during the working day if they're visiting.
You didn't say what day she got the ticket but the sign says she needs a permit to park there between 6:30pm and 8pm (Mon-Fri).
I assume it's been done like that to allow people who live there to park when they get back from work and for others to park during the working day if they're visiting.
belfry said:
My daughter got a parking ticket at 7.45pm. This was the sign giving details of the relevant parking times.
One line seems to say it's okay to park Mon-Fri after 8pm and another says 6.30pm
Is it just me, or is this confusing enough to challenge the ticket?
If you have a Permit, you can park there Mon-Sat 9am -8pm.One line seems to say it's okay to park Mon-Fri after 8pm and another says 6.30pm
Is it just me, or is this confusing enough to challenge the ticket?
Your Daughter doesn't have a permit, so we move onto the next section.
Non-permit holders can park Mon-Fri 9am-6:30pm providing you pay for a ticket.
As she parked there at 7:45pm and didn't have a permit she's bang to rights unfortunately. Between 6:30pm-8pm only permit holders are allowed to be parked there.
I do agree though, the sign can be confusing and could be made easier to read. PErmit Holders - X / Non-permit holders - Y
C5_Steve said:
I don't think so, no.
You didn't say what day she got the ticket but the sign says she needs a permit to park there between 6:30pm and 8pm (Mon-Fri).
I assume it's been done like that to allow people who live there to park when they get back from work and for others to park during the working day if they're visiting.
I read it that way too. Gives the permit holders a window to take the spaceYou didn't say what day she got the ticket but the sign says she needs a permit to park there between 6:30pm and 8pm (Mon-Fri).
I assume it's been done like that to allow people who live there to park when they get back from work and for others to park during the working day if they're visiting.
To me it looks like:
8pm - 9am - no parking restrictions
9am - 6.30pm Permit F holders or pay and display tickets only
6.30pm - 8pm Permit F holders only
Odd but makes sense, especially when considering a previous commenter in that it provides residents a finite window to find a parking spot before the free for all appears.
8pm - 9am - no parking restrictions
9am - 6.30pm Permit F holders or pay and display tickets only
6.30pm - 8pm Permit F holders only
Odd but makes sense, especially when considering a previous commenter in that it provides residents a finite window to find a parking spot before the free for all appears.
worsy said:
J2daG1990 said:
worsy said:
Yes I'd challenge that. For me it should be AND and not OR.
AND wouldn't make sense, you either have a permit or you don't. Only one of the sections applies depending on this.worsy said:
J2daG1990 said:
worsy said:
Yes I'd challenge that. For me it should be AND and not OR.
AND wouldn't make sense, you either have a permit or you don't. Only one of the sections applies depending on this.What happens after 8pm? Presumably no one is allowed to park there.
The rules could be read two ways - "These are the circumstances where there are parking restrictions". This is the normal way these signs are read and read that way if you don't fall under the Resident clause then you only need a ticket until 18:30.
If you read the sign as "These are the times you may park here", which is what would create the ticket that was issued, then there is nothing facilitating any parking after 8pm.
Presumably Residents aren't being ticketed for parking there overnight, so that tells you which interpretation applies.
The rules could be read two ways - "These are the circumstances where there are parking restrictions". This is the normal way these signs are read and read that way if you don't fall under the Resident clause then you only need a ticket until 18:30.
If you read the sign as "These are the times you may park here", which is what would create the ticket that was issued, then there is nothing facilitating any parking after 8pm.
Presumably Residents aren't being ticketed for parking there overnight, so that tells you which interpretation applies.
It should say the following to be clear
As it has that "OR" that could imply that 9-8 are rules for permit holders, 9-6:30 for those paying (so non permit holders can park free 6:30 onwards).
I know that's not what it's meant to indicate, just that it could certainly be interpreted that way.
So why not just word it better? (as per quote above) - well, prob to get money from people like OPs daughter who may "mis"-interpret the sign.
QuattroDave said:
9am - 6.30pm Permit F holders or pay and display tickets only
6.30pm - 8pm Permit F holders only
No ambiguity that way.6.30pm - 8pm Permit F holders only
As it has that "OR" that could imply that 9-8 are rules for permit holders, 9-6:30 for those paying (so non permit holders can park free 6:30 onwards).
I know that's not what it's meant to indicate, just that it could certainly be interpreted that way.
So why not just word it better? (as per quote above) - well, prob to get money from people like OPs daughter who may "mis"-interpret the sign.
paulrockliffe said:
What happens after 8pm? Presumably no one is allowed to park there.
The rules could be read two ways - "These are the circumstances where there are parking restrictions". This is the normal way these signs are read and read that way if you don't fall under the Resident clause then you only need a ticket until 18:30.
If you read the sign as "These are the times you may park here", which is what would create the ticket that was issued, then there is nothing facilitating any parking after 8pm.
Presumably Residents aren't being ticketed for parking there overnight, so that tells you which interpretation applies.
We would need to see the road marking by the sign to be sure, but that sign should inly be used next to marked bays, and there would be no restrictions on marked bays outside of the prescribed times on the sign. The rules could be read two ways - "These are the circumstances where there are parking restrictions". This is the normal way these signs are read and read that way if you don't fall under the Resident clause then you only need a ticket until 18:30.
If you read the sign as "These are the times you may park here", which is what would create the ticket that was issued, then there is nothing facilitating any parking after 8pm.
Presumably Residents aren't being ticketed for parking there overnight, so that tells you which interpretation applies.
See Chapter 13 here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
If the sign is not in accordance, then the OP will have a case. But it looks fine to me, and I've been putting signs like that in for years.
The second Or doesn't make a lot of sense. It reads like if you pay by phone then none of the other two statements above apply.
It's needs a line or something separating the first one.
First statement on permits
Between these times
Buy ticket at machine Or pay ok phone
Not that I suspect any of that changes the validity of the fine received but I don't think its crystal clear.
It's needs a line or something separating the first one.
First statement on permits
Between these times
Buy ticket at machine Or pay ok phone
Not that I suspect any of that changes the validity of the fine received but I don't think its crystal clear.
Each clause lists the times that it is in effect, if you don't have a permit then the to 8pm time is not in effect. If you're saying that that sort of sign places no restriction on parking outside of the time listed, then the need for a ticket ends at 18:30. There's no mechanism to apply the 8pm time because it is in a clause that cannot apply to a non-resident.
Around here it is normal for restrictions that are intended to allow residents to park on coming home from work to run from 4pm to 6pm, so even taking the intention behind the restriction at face value leaves ambiguity. By 18:30 residents have returned from work and been unable to find a space to park.
Around here it is normal for restrictions that are intended to allow residents to park on coming home from work to run from 4pm to 6pm, so even taking the intention behind the restriction at face value leaves ambiguity. By 18:30 residents have returned from work and been unable to find a space to park.
Scabutz said:
The second Or doesn't make a lot of sense. It reads like if you pay by phone then none of the other two statements above apply.
It's needs a line or something separating the first one.
First statement on permits
Between these times
Buy ticket at machine Or pay ok phone
Not that I suspect any of that changes the validity of the fine received but I don't think its crystal clear.
Yes, someone has screwed up their use of brackets well and truly. I'd not spotted that.It's needs a line or something separating the first one.
First statement on permits
Between these times
Buy ticket at machine Or pay ok phone
Not that I suspect any of that changes the validity of the fine received but I don't think its crystal clear.
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