RE: More active signs needed: ABD
Friday 2nd September 2005
Image courtesy ABDRoad safety group the Association of British Drivers (ABD) has voiced its support for more Vehicle Activated Signs (VAS), re-iterating a similar call earlier this year by Richard Brunstrom, head of road policing at the Association of Chief Police Officers -- the top cop drivers love to hate for his speed camera fixation.
More active signs needed: ABD
Drivers' group calls for warnings not scameras
Image courtesy ABD
VASs are the new, self-illuminating road signs that flash a roadside safety message to drivers as they approach a specific hazard. The ABD reckoned that VASs have been shown to be powerful tools in alerting drivers to problems, but with increasing numbers of local authorities using them almost indiscriminately, it's concerned that drivers will start to ignore them.
Road safety spokesman Mark McArthur-Christie said: "We`re now starting to see VASs used as a catch-all solution for problems. Many counties are introducing blanket lower speed limits, and as soon as the limit goes in, it is immediately reinforced with a series of VASs. We`re concerned that a valuable currency is being debased."
ABD chairman Brian Gregory said: "VASs have a key role to play, but it's vital that we use them appropriately. They must only be placed where there is a specific problem to which drivers need to be alerted. If they are placed everywhere, drivers will ignore them all - it's the old story of the little boy who cried wolf."
The ABD supplied examples to bolster its case:
Good use of VAS
- A447 Stapleton, Leicestershire: A VAS that flashes up a speed camera warning sign, located just prior to the entrance to a garden centre and petrol station situated on a left hand bend. Photo here.
- A446 Wishaw, Warwickshire: Bend warning sign. Photo here (a particularly fascinating link).
Bad use of VAS
- Oxfordshire and Suffolk: Countless VASs that simply remind people of an inappropriately low speed limit where no specific hazard exists.
- A360 Wiltshire: Numerous warning signs for obvious bends, signs triggered by too low a speed.
- Wood End, Warwickshire: 30mph VAS on a minor road on the outskirts of a village at a location where 40mph would be safe, and placed several hundred yards from a more hazardous spot where 30mph is necessary.
Where VAS would be more effective than an existing speed camera
- A1 Stubbock Hill, Lincolnshire: Speed camera situated on busy dual carriageway just before a farm entrance. The speed camera actually distracts drivers from the real hazard. Safety would be improved by replacing the camera with a tractor activated warning sign. Photo here.
Discussion
chris_crossley said:
www.abd.org.uk/jjleeming.htm
The Leeming book 'Road Accidents Prevent or Punish?' is an interesting read, although written 40 yrs ago, much of it could have been written today.
It's not in print any more but I have a copy.
If there's any interest and someone has a website to host it for downloading, I can send it in .pdf format, although it's quite a large file (161mb).
There's a pair of VAS's at either end of a 30mph limit in Burton Joyce (Notts). They flash your speed if it exceeds 30mph. They continue to update your speed until it drops to 30mph, at which point they draw breath and say "Thank you".
Nice and polite, but really, really distracting!
Nice and polite, but really, really distracting!
catso said:
I always think the ones in a 60 NSL that flash at 45mph will earn themselves a lot of respect 
Still, better than Scameras.
True - but the point of them is they should flash for a hazard, not as a speed limit reminder. If you should be doing 45mph or less because of an impending hazard, then that's what you should be doing, even if its on a derestricted stretch of road...
Those signs that give you a continual reminder are distracting - but they get the message across!!
Excluding outside schools, hospitals, nursing homes and any validly dangerous junctions, these things should replace ALL speed cameras that are trying to warn of adverse road contours (and all the rest should be taken down).
A great example is in Wythall, in the West Mids. There is a bend in the road at the top of a hill, right by Wythall station. If you've never been down that road, the bend is a lot sharper than it looks and you can't tell until you're right on top of it.
The VAS tells you so, a scamera wouldn't.
A great example is in Wythall, in the West Mids. There is a bend in the road at the top of a hill, right by Wythall station. If you've never been down that road, the bend is a lot sharper than it looks and you can't tell until you're right on top of it.
The VAS tells you so, a scamera wouldn't.
lockup said:Surely less distracting than having to look at your speedo when you see a scammer?
There's a pair of VAS's at either end of a 30mph limit in Burton Joyce (Notts). They flash your speed if it exceeds 30mph. They continue to update your speed until it drops to 30mph, at which point they draw breath and say "Thank you".
Nice and polite, but really, really distracting!
I'm not too convinced that flashing things will be a safety aid; I'd rather concentrate on road hazards and my general car control.
For my eyes to look at a flashing sign telling me what speed I am doing will (a) give me information irrelevant to my safety (b) distract me unnecessarily.
I agree, however, that this is preferable to taking money from me automatically or imposing some other form of speed control which would be more dangerous.
For my eyes to look at a flashing sign telling me what speed I am doing will (a) give me information irrelevant to my safety (b) distract me unnecessarily.
I agree, however, that this is preferable to taking money from me automatically or imposing some other form of speed control which would be more dangerous.
james_j said:
I'm not too convinced that flashing things will be a safety aid; I'd rather concentrate on road hazards and my general car control.
But what if you don't know the road hazard is there? Poorly sighted junction on unfamiliar fast road etc.
I'd rather get a warning from a flashing sign before I got there than only find out when suddenly confronted by a car pulling out in front of me.
grahambell said:
I'm not too convinced that flashing things will be a safety aid; I'd rather concentrate on road hazards and my general car control.
But what if you don't know the road hazard is there? Poorly sighted junction on unfamiliar fast road etc.
I'd rather get a warning from a flashing sign before I got there than only find out when suddenly confronted by a car pulling out in front of me.
I'd prefer we retained the old-style signs like "concealed entrance", "deceptive bend" and so on. These signs were usually placed correctly / intelligently and therefore could be taken notice of to the benefit of everyone.
Things flashing away will either be ignored or will distract dangerously.
lockup said:
There's a pair of VAS's at either end of a 30mph limit in Burton Joyce (Notts). They flash your speed if it exceeds 30mph. They continue to update your speed until it drops to 30mph
I just realised that these signs (which display your speed) could actually be more dangerous. I'm sure there is a certain section of society who thinks it hilarious to have competitions to see who can get the highest reading
It's quite encouraging to see these things appearing in Derbyshire.
One in Renishaw has replaced a camera, and another one there flashes up a "slow down" message approaching a dodgy crossroads.....even when you're below the 50 limit.
I find them very effective.
Sensible thinking from the Speedmeister Generals....whatever next?
One in Renishaw has replaced a camera, and another one there flashes up a "slow down" message approaching a dodgy crossroads.....even when you're below the 50 limit.
I find them very effective.
Sensible thinking from the Speedmeister Generals....whatever next?
mybrainhurts said:
One in Renishaw has replaced a camera, and another one there flashes up a "slow down" message approaching a dodgy crossroads.....even when you're below the 50 limit.
So it flashes irrespective of your speed? What's the point? Slow down from what speed? Why? It's possibly a distraction; what's wrong with a sign saying something like "caution Crossroads", placed some distance before the crossroads. Why install a flashing distraction which forces a driver possibly to look away from the road to the sign - they may think they're about to be flashed by a revenue camera and react irrationally.
They've put one of those up near us.
It's on a sharp bend, with two long straights either side, but it's set way too slow.
I've been in a queue of 20 cars, doing 50, sitting 100 car lengths back.
The lights just never go out, interestingly no-one got hurt. I don't think there was even an accident.
I guess they're set up to warn geriatric HGV drivers, who are drunk and only have one partially functional brake!
Edited to add;
What a waste of money.
>> Edited by dilbert on Saturday 3rd September 21:10
It's on a sharp bend, with two long straights either side, but it's set way too slow.
I've been in a queue of 20 cars, doing 50, sitting 100 car lengths back.
The lights just never go out, interestingly no-one got hurt. I don't think there was even an accident.
I guess they're set up to warn geriatric HGV drivers, who are drunk and only have one partially functional brake!
Edited to add;
What a waste of money.
>> Edited by dilbert on Saturday 3rd September 21:10
james_j said:
One in Renishaw has replaced a camera, and another one there flashes up a "slow down" message approaching a dodgy crossroads.....even when you're below the 50 limit.
So it flashes irrespective of your speed? What's the point? Slow down from what speed? Why? It's possibly a distraction; what's wrong with a sign saying something like "caution Crossroads", placed some distance before the crossroads. Why install a flashing distraction which forces a driver possibly to look away from the road to the sign - they may think they're about to be flashed by a revenue camera and react irrationally.
I can understand your response, but that just doesn't happen that way. They're an excellent means of reminding you about something you need to be reminded about......
I think VAS's are very useful...there's a pair (both directions) either side of a nasty cross-roads on the Fosse Way about a mile north of the B4100 (near Gaydon & the Motor Heritage Centre).
But I can see how they can be abused (bit like speed camera's really)...any numpty can say "I want one of them", and without a thought-through rationale you end up with something that either distracts or p'sses drivers' off.
But I can see how they can be abused (bit like speed camera's really)...any numpty can say "I want one of them", and without a thought-through rationale you end up with something that either distracts or p'sses drivers' off.
james_j said:
One in Renishaw has replaced a camera, and another one there flashes up a "slow down" message approaching a dodgy crossroads.....even when you're below the 50 limit.
So it flashes irrespective of your speed? What's the point? Slow down from what speed? Why? It's possibly a distraction; what's wrong with a sign saying something like "caution Crossroads", placed some distance before the crossroads. Why install a flashing distraction which forces a driver possibly to look away from the road to the sign - they may think they're about to be flashed by a revenue camera and react irrationally.
But even though the speed limit on the road is 50mph it does not mean that the whole road is safe to travel along at that speed. For example a TVR will make the whole road easily whereas a 4x4 may not be able to and might topple over.
The signs should be set to the lowest common denominator which may annoy people such as yourself but be invaluable to others. (just remember that not everyone is up to your level of driving skill).
Well I'm old enough to remember pre numpty paint, when the central white line told you all you needed to know about the road. Big gaps, all is well... small gaps, there's something you might not be seeing coming up.
It worked brilliantly until some idiot decided that all roads should have double a large central reserve painted with a dashed diagonal. Now the information that the white line used to portray has been denied to the driver.
That's dumbing down for you, work to the lowest common denominator rather than train those that fail to learn even the basics of roadcraft.
Bring back the single white line I say
It worked brilliantly until some idiot decided that all roads should have double a large central reserve painted with a dashed diagonal. Now the information that the white line used to portray has been denied to the driver.
That's dumbing down for you, work to the lowest common denominator rather than train those that fail to learn even the basics of roadcraft.
Bring back the single white line I say
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