why did lotus select a 1.8 over a 2 Ltr ?
Discussion
quick question.
many roadster seem to have a 2 ltr engines, the ariel atom has a 2 ltr engine and its only 500 KG (approx).
why did lotus decide a 1.8 was the way to go ?
im not an expert but surly a 2 ltr engine would provide more of "everything" over a 1.8 ..... even after taking into account any extra weight considerations etc....
maybe if was simply down to economics .... lower build cost ?
cheers
scott
many roadster seem to have a 2 ltr engines, the ariel atom has a 2 ltr engine and its only 500 KG (approx).
why did lotus decide a 1.8 was the way to go ?
im not an expert but surly a 2 ltr engine would provide more of "everything" over a 1.8 ..... even after taking into account any extra weight considerations etc....
maybe if was simply down to economics .... lower build cost ?
cheers
scott
lawrence5 said:
You have to go with whoever will supply you..... You talking about the Toyota or K series ??
sorry should have said i was talking about toyota. why go for a toyota 1.8 instead of 2 Ltr toyota ?
i guess they couldnt strike a deal with honda ? aren't they the best engine for its class ?#
scott
yes - youre missing something - people with well sorted S1 and early S2 Elises that track their cars and want something more than 120bhp/160bhp K series offers. 220bhp or 300bhp Honda engines in fact (the article is full of errors)
I have a 300bhp supercharged Honda engine in my Elise...wouldnt be without it
I have a 300bhp supercharged Honda engine in my Elise...wouldnt be without it
or let me put it another way - you love your Elise, the way it handles, drives, the performance/running cost ratio...but you want a faster car.
Would you like your Elise to do sub 4secs to 60 and 8secs to 100mph...and 175mph flat out? ..leave F360s at the traffic lights etc....if so - then drop a Honda lump in the back
Would you like your Elise to do sub 4secs to 60 and 8secs to 100mph...and 175mph flat out? ..leave F360s at the traffic lights etc....if so - then drop a Honda lump in the back
oh nearly forgot...then theres the weight issue - the new 111R/Exige are like 860-930Kg+ with options so 190bhp in 111R is about as quick as a S1 Sport 160...now 930Kg is getting close to Noble/TVR weight...which all have 360-425bhp...so not that outrageous in the big scheme of things.
For the track day enthusiast, and making the most of what youve got, then you want to start with a light car - S1's start at about 730Kg and S2 780Kg - you could buy a £10 knackered S1, spend £15K on it with Honda/suspension etc and youve got a car thats as fast as nearly anything this side of £100K ..........if you just want a 'factory' new Elise to drive on the road then a 111r is a great car, well built and even more comfy to use daily....but its starting to move Lotus away from what the Elise was designed for....as a track car that could be used occasionally on the road.
Now its a road car that you can use on track.......and needs to be to keep the sales up, as Lotus have run out of potential buyers (well in the UK at least) and are now trying to make the Elise appeal to a broader audience (and pinch sales from potential S2000, Z4, Boxster owners etc).
BTW - the Honda isnt the only option...you can have a 2.0L Duratec, or 1.8 Audi turbo popped in the back - 190-300bhp +, £8-13K ....theres around 90-100 Elises in the UK now with these conversions
For the track day enthusiast, and making the most of what youve got, then you want to start with a light car - S1's start at about 730Kg and S2 780Kg - you could buy a £10 knackered S1, spend £15K on it with Honda/suspension etc and youve got a car thats as fast as nearly anything this side of £100K ..........if you just want a 'factory' new Elise to drive on the road then a 111r is a great car, well built and even more comfy to use daily....but its starting to move Lotus away from what the Elise was designed for....as a track car that could be used occasionally on the road.
Now its a road car that you can use on track.......and needs to be to keep the sales up, as Lotus have run out of potential buyers (well in the UK at least) and are now trying to make the Elise appeal to a broader audience (and pinch sales from potential S2000, Z4, Boxster owners etc).
BTW - the Honda isnt the only option...you can have a 2.0L Duratec, or 1.8 Audi turbo popped in the back - 190-300bhp +, £8-13K ....theres around 90-100 Elises in the UK now with these conversions
I agree with everything bogie says.. 
I swapped my Z4 for the Exige as my only car and would never go back, probably couldn't have done this with the first Exige.
The latest range of Elises/Exige attract a new range of buyers which is great for the company and can only be good for all lotus customers in the long run. But a used S1 with a honda engine would have been cheaper than an S2 Exige, and probably kill me on the track, you pays you money and takes your choice.
I swapped my Z4 for the Exige as my only car and would never go back, probably couldn't have done this with the first Exige.
The latest range of Elises/Exige attract a new range of buyers which is great for the company and can only be good for all lotus customers in the long run. But a used S1 with a honda engine would have been cheaper than an S2 Exige, and probably kill me on the track, you pays you money and takes your choice.
Towzer said:
there's an article in this months evo mag about a Honda Vtec conversion for the Elise... however it costs £10K. Unless I'm missing something I just don't see the point.
Phil
I'm afraid you are - totally. Unless you've actually been in one of these conversions you'll never quite understand how bloody awesome it makes the car. It's the car the 111R should have been, but Lotus for simple business reasons (i.e. needing to shift more units and therefore necessitating a broader appeal with aircon, leccy windows and shite like that) had to ditch Chapmans basic principles, and as bogie rightly says, larded it up to appeal to the masses...
bogie said:
the new 111R/Exige are like 860-930Kg+ with options so 190bhp in 111R is about as quick as a S1 Sport 160...now 930Kg is getting close to Noble/TVR weight...which all have 360-425bhp...so not that outrageous in the big scheme of things.
I spent 13.5k on a Sport 160 this summer and I know for a fact that it's got enough legs to keep me happy vs a 111R until you get to a point where your license is compromised, and at that point I back off anyway because for me the Elise never was about v-max. FWIW I strongly believe that the 111R doesn't handle as well either due to the more compromised wheel choice (skinny fronts = understeer etc.). Anyway, that's all bye the bye and a huge matter of opinion and personal preference. I do think though that the 'yota engine map isn't great, they didn't spend enough time thinking it through and hence you get the 240R remap which actually makes it pull consistently (with a blower) like it should have done from the get-go.
With the Honda you get incredible, linear power delivery in all gears, from all speeds, in a less Jeckll & Hyde manner than the 111R... and it's lighter.
Get a ride out in the 'basic' 200bhp version and you'll be impressed, get a ride out in a 300bhp supercharged one and you'd better have a sh!tload of self-control with the chequebook.
No worries dude..that article in EVO was crap anyway - everything is incorrect in it.
Get to a meet/trackday sometime and you will see all manner of Duratec Elises, Supercharged Honda 340Rs, Honda Exiges, S1 Elise with 310bhp Audi engines .....just dont have a go in one unless you have good will power to resist
Get to a meet/trackday sometime and you will see all manner of Duratec Elises, Supercharged Honda 340Rs, Honda Exiges, S1 Elise with 310bhp Audi engines .....just dont have a go in one unless you have good will power to resist
Towzer said:
Sorry chaps, I'm new to this game (M3's + 911's previously) and never even thought about taking an older car and putting in a new engine.
I stand corrected, please forgive me.
Phil
Pah, no bother at all mate - until I found out more I had a similar opinion to be honest. Worth getting down to a track-day and having a pax in one - they're awesome
bogie said:
...you could buy a £10 knackered S1, spend £15K on it with Honda/suspension etc and youve got a car thats as fast as nearly anything this side of £100K .......
If I could find an old S1 for a tenner then I'd do it without hesitation!!
>> Edited by jig on Monday 5th September 18:34
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