Discussion
Apologies for the relatively long post, I appreciate any and all constructive replies.
A person dies. They leave a will properly signed, witnessed and dated 2015. During the period of due diligence, another handwritten, document is discovered, which has different bequests to the 2015 will, but is not signed or witnessed. Essentially, the beneficiaries of both documents are the same, the only differences are in the amounts of the bequests. One of the beneficiaries is unhappy with their share from the 2015 will and puts significant pressure on the other beneficiaries to accept the second document. Due to the behaviour of this beneficiary, the solicitor dealing with the estate gives them the opportunity to come to an acceptable compromise or the 2015 will stands. Despite the other beneficiaries being prepared to compromise, the dissatisfied beneficiary refuses, consequently, the solicitor enacts the bequests according to the 2015 will. Even the 2015 will gives the significantly greater bequest to the dissatisfied beneficiary. All of this took place between September 2022 and August 2023.
Fast forward to today and the dissatisfied beneficiary sends a message to the other beneficiaries containing a copy of a typed will, hand dated by them as 2021, this will is neither witnessed nor signed. The final comment on this message is for the other beneficiaries to, “do the right thing,” or he will take the “appropriate steps!”
Now, my questions are;
1) Which document is the correct will? I know what I think, but IANAL.
2) Has the disgruntled beneficiary got a leg to stand on?
3) If the disgruntled beneficiary does take “appropriate steps,” it will undoubtedly cost money. The other beneficiaries are certain that, even if he stands no chance of winning, he will do it just so they will use up all of their inheritance defending the case. Can he actually do this?
4) If the disgruntled beneficiary tries to do as mentioned in question 3, is there any way that the other beneficiaries can take action to dissuade him or even legal action for his bogus claim?
Again, I apologise for the length of this post and appreciate all constructive responses.
A person dies. They leave a will properly signed, witnessed and dated 2015. During the period of due diligence, another handwritten, document is discovered, which has different bequests to the 2015 will, but is not signed or witnessed. Essentially, the beneficiaries of both documents are the same, the only differences are in the amounts of the bequests. One of the beneficiaries is unhappy with their share from the 2015 will and puts significant pressure on the other beneficiaries to accept the second document. Due to the behaviour of this beneficiary, the solicitor dealing with the estate gives them the opportunity to come to an acceptable compromise or the 2015 will stands. Despite the other beneficiaries being prepared to compromise, the dissatisfied beneficiary refuses, consequently, the solicitor enacts the bequests according to the 2015 will. Even the 2015 will gives the significantly greater bequest to the dissatisfied beneficiary. All of this took place between September 2022 and August 2023.
Fast forward to today and the dissatisfied beneficiary sends a message to the other beneficiaries containing a copy of a typed will, hand dated by them as 2021, this will is neither witnessed nor signed. The final comment on this message is for the other beneficiaries to, “do the right thing,” or he will take the “appropriate steps!”
Now, my questions are;
1) Which document is the correct will? I know what I think, but IANAL.
2) Has the disgruntled beneficiary got a leg to stand on?
3) If the disgruntled beneficiary does take “appropriate steps,” it will undoubtedly cost money. The other beneficiaries are certain that, even if he stands no chance of winning, he will do it just so they will use up all of their inheritance defending the case. Can he actually do this?
4) If the disgruntled beneficiary tries to do as mentioned in question 3, is there any way that the other beneficiaries can take action to dissuade him or even legal action for his bogus claim?
Again, I apologise for the length of this post and appreciate all constructive responses.
Now, my questions are;
1) Which document is the correct will? I know what I think, but IANAL.
The signed dated and witnessed 2015 will.
2) Has the disgruntled beneficiary got a leg to stand on?
Why would said disgruntled individual try and put a block on a will that gives him less ?
3) If the disgruntled beneficiary does take “appropriate steps,” it will undoubtedly cost money. The other beneficiaries are certain that, even if he stands no chance of winning, he will do it just so they will use up all of their inheritance defending the case. Can he actually do this?
In theory any individual can place a block on the will but ultimately they need to prove what they are alleging. Trying to then persuade them without Solicitors would obviously be the cheapest course of action but might not be easy.
4) If the disgruntled beneficiary tries to do as mentioned in question 3, is there any way that the other beneficiaries can take action to dissuade him or even legal action for his bogus claim?
I doubt legal action. You and the others beneficiaries can of course appoint a solicitor to try and get the block lifted but this is where costs start.
On behalf of an elderly relative I am acting as litigation friend to get such a block removed.
This block has been on the will for now 6+ years and I was only made aware of this a couple of years ago.
She was left the money but a neighbour is saying he was promised it instead.
The papers are now with the court to decide.
I’m guessing the legal fees endured will be around a minimum of 10% of the estate with maybe up to 20%.
1) Which document is the correct will? I know what I think, but IANAL.
The signed dated and witnessed 2015 will.
2) Has the disgruntled beneficiary got a leg to stand on?
Why would said disgruntled individual try and put a block on a will that gives him less ?
3) If the disgruntled beneficiary does take “appropriate steps,” it will undoubtedly cost money. The other beneficiaries are certain that, even if he stands no chance of winning, he will do it just so they will use up all of their inheritance defending the case. Can he actually do this?
In theory any individual can place a block on the will but ultimately they need to prove what they are alleging. Trying to then persuade them without Solicitors would obviously be the cheapest course of action but might not be easy.
4) If the disgruntled beneficiary tries to do as mentioned in question 3, is there any way that the other beneficiaries can take action to dissuade him or even legal action for his bogus claim?
I doubt legal action. You and the others beneficiaries can of course appoint a solicitor to try and get the block lifted but this is where costs start.
On behalf of an elderly relative I am acting as litigation friend to get such a block removed.
This block has been on the will for now 6+ years and I was only made aware of this a couple of years ago.
She was left the money but a neighbour is saying he was promised it instead.
The papers are now with the court to decide.
I’m guessing the legal fees endured will be around a minimum of 10% of the estate with maybe up to 20%.
Mr.Chips said:
Apologies for the relatively long post, I appreciate any and all constructive replies.
A person dies. They leave a will properly signed, witnessed and dated 2015. During the period of due diligence, another handwritten, document is discovered, which has different bequests to the 2015 will, but is not signed or witnessed. Essentially, the beneficiaries of both documents are the same, the only differences are in the amounts of the bequests. One of the beneficiaries is unhappy with their share from the 2015 will and puts significant pressure on the other beneficiaries to accept the second document. Due to the behaviour of this beneficiary, the solicitor dealing with the estate gives them the opportunity to come to an acceptable compromise or the 2015 will stands. Despite the other beneficiaries being prepared to compromise, the dissatisfied beneficiary refuses, consequently, the solicitor enacts the bequests according to the 2015 will. Even the 2015 will gives the significantly greater bequest to the dissatisfied beneficiary. All of this took place between September 2022 and August 2023.
Fast forward to today and the dissatisfied beneficiary sends a message to the other beneficiaries containing a copy of a typed will, hand dated by them as 2021, this will is neither witnessed nor signed. The final comment on this message is for the other beneficiaries to, “do the right thing,” or he will take the “appropriate steps!”
Now, my questions are;
1) Which document is the correct will? I know what I think, but IANAL.
2) Has the disgruntled beneficiary got a leg to stand on?
3) If the disgruntled beneficiary does take “appropriate steps,” it will undoubtedly cost money. The other beneficiaries are certain that, even if he stands no chance of winning, he will do it just so they will use up all of their inheritance defending the case. Can he actually do this?
4) If the disgruntled beneficiary tries to do as mentioned in question 3, is there any way that the other beneficiaries can take action to dissuade him or even legal action for his bogus claim?
Again, I apologise for the length of this post and appreciate all constructive responses.
Who is owning up to have created that document? Who "discovered" the document?A person dies. They leave a will properly signed, witnessed and dated 2015. During the period of due diligence, another handwritten, document is discovered, which has different bequests to the 2015 will, but is not signed or witnessed. Essentially, the beneficiaries of both documents are the same, the only differences are in the amounts of the bequests. One of the beneficiaries is unhappy with their share from the 2015 will and puts significant pressure on the other beneficiaries to accept the second document. Due to the behaviour of this beneficiary, the solicitor dealing with the estate gives them the opportunity to come to an acceptable compromise or the 2015 will stands. Despite the other beneficiaries being prepared to compromise, the dissatisfied beneficiary refuses, consequently, the solicitor enacts the bequests according to the 2015 will. Even the 2015 will gives the significantly greater bequest to the dissatisfied beneficiary. All of this took place between September 2022 and August 2023.
Fast forward to today and the dissatisfied beneficiary sends a message to the other beneficiaries containing a copy of a typed will, hand dated by them as 2021, this will is neither witnessed nor signed. The final comment on this message is for the other beneficiaries to, “do the right thing,” or he will take the “appropriate steps!”
Now, my questions are;
1) Which document is the correct will? I know what I think, but IANAL.
2) Has the disgruntled beneficiary got a leg to stand on?
3) If the disgruntled beneficiary does take “appropriate steps,” it will undoubtedly cost money. The other beneficiaries are certain that, even if he stands no chance of winning, he will do it just so they will use up all of their inheritance defending the case. Can he actually do this?
4) If the disgruntled beneficiary tries to do as mentioned in question 3, is there any way that the other beneficiaries can take action to dissuade him or even legal action for his bogus claim?
Again, I apologise for the length of this post and appreciate all constructive responses.
Thanks for the replies so far. To answer some of the points raised;
I am not one of the beneficiaries.
The bequests from the 2015 will have been settled and all bequests have been paid to the beneficiaries, so there is no block on the estate.
The handwritten document was written by the person who died and was discovered by the two main beneficiaries, one of whom is the dissatisfied person.
I am not one of the beneficiaries.
The bequests from the 2015 will have been settled and all bequests have been paid to the beneficiaries, so there is no block on the estate.
The handwritten document was written by the person who died and was discovered by the two main beneficiaries, one of whom is the dissatisfied person.
Mr.Chips said:
Thanks for the replies so far. To answer some of the points raised;
I am not one of the beneficiaries.
The bequests from the 2015 will have been settled and all bequests have been paid to the beneficiaries, so there is no block on the estate.
The handwritten document was written by the person who died and was discovered by the two main beneficiaries, one of whom is the dissatisfied person.
In which case if the estate has been settled I cannot see why the disgruntled person would even be saying anything if he then gets less ?I am not one of the beneficiaries.
The bequests from the 2015 will have been settled and all bequests have been paid to the beneficiaries, so there is no block on the estate.
The handwritten document was written by the person who died and was discovered by the two main beneficiaries, one of whom is the dissatisfied person.
But if all that has been found suddenly is something unsigned undated and unwitnessed I would have thought that is the end of the matter and realistically nothing he can do.
If the original solicitor arranged probate then isn’t that the end of the matter ?
Unless I’m missing something obviously.
There is yet another programme on TV this week about Inheritances and a drama on tonight.
Money and relatives sometimes isn’t a good mix.
alscar said:
In which case if the estate has been settled I cannot see why the disgruntled person would even be saying anything if he then gets less ?
But if all that has been found suddenly is something unsigned undated and unwitnessed I would have thought that is the end of the matter and realistically nothing he can do.
If the original solicitor arranged probate then isn’t that the end of the matter ?
Unless I’m missing something obviously.
There is yet another programme on TV this week about Inheritances and a drama on tonight.
Money and relatives sometimes isn’t a good mix.
I think it's the other way around. The 2015 signed will that has been enacted has a lower amount for the beneficiary in question than the newer unsigned one.But if all that has been found suddenly is something unsigned undated and unwitnessed I would have thought that is the end of the matter and realistically nothing he can do.
If the original solicitor arranged probate then isn’t that the end of the matter ?
Unless I’m missing something obviously.
There is yet another programme on TV this week about Inheritances and a drama on tonight.
Money and relatives sometimes isn’t a good mix.
BertBert said:
I think it's the other way around. The 2015 signed will that has been enacted has a lower amount for the beneficiary in question than the newer unsigned one.
Ah my bad then in this regard. But in which case if said 2015 will has already been enacted then complaining now would seem to be a tad late then ?
The unhappy beneficiary must have good grounds to overturn a signed and witnessed will, yes there is another bit of paper that says something but is neither signed or witnessed. The burden is on the unhappy beneficiary to prove the validity of the unsigned will over the signed/witnessed one.
The fact they are trying to get others to agree to a decision informally that will benefit themselves really says it all i.e. they don't have a leg to stand on, know a court would throw it out and is basically whining because they thought they were entitled to more than they got.
I think the other executor should discuss this with the solicitor who dealt with the will as they will have a professional interest in the outcome as professional improprietary is also being alleged. As for the whining one, tell them the matter is settled and basically go forth, do not engage in any verbal discussions. If they have something to say they should put it in writing.
Trouble with disputes over wills is the rifts that are created split families and never really heal, how important is the relationship with the whining one?
The fact they are trying to get others to agree to a decision informally that will benefit themselves really says it all i.e. they don't have a leg to stand on, know a court would throw it out and is basically whining because they thought they were entitled to more than they got.
I think the other executor should discuss this with the solicitor who dealt with the will as they will have a professional interest in the outcome as professional improprietary is also being alleged. As for the whining one, tell them the matter is settled and basically go forth, do not engage in any verbal discussions. If they have something to say they should put it in writing.
Trouble with disputes over wills is the rifts that are created split families and never really heal, how important is the relationship with the whining one?
Edited by FMOB on Monday 18th September 18:08
Thanks again guys.
In all the documents, the disgruntled beneficiary would have inherited the lions share of the estate. In the 2015 will, he gets less than he would in the other two documents, but still more than everyone else. However, he wanted more and, although the other beneficiaries were quite happy to compromise, sadly he wasn’t and tried to exert quite a lot of psychological pressure on the other beneficiaries to acquiesce to his wishes.
In all the documents, the disgruntled beneficiary would have inherited the lions share of the estate. In the 2015 will, he gets less than he would in the other two documents, but still more than everyone else. However, he wanted more and, although the other beneficiaries were quite happy to compromise, sadly he wasn’t and tried to exert quite a lot of psychological pressure on the other beneficiaries to acquiesce to his wishes.
Vasco said:
There's only one valid will - the one signed, witnessed and dated.
Everything else is irrelevant twaddle.
That's my view too. I'm surprised the solicitor would even consider an unsigned unwitnessed Will - it's just a piece of paper. But we don't know what 'pressure' the disgruntled party applied.Everything else is irrelevant twaddle.
Tell him outright to f
k OFF.
A will can be challenged, but not with unsigned and unwitnessed will.
If he wants to challenge, he will have to foot the bill.
As he got the majority I imagine he can't claim he's not been properly provided for so he would have to prove he was promised more, or the will is invalid or that they were pressurised into making the will as signed.
From what you say, I cant see how.
A fking chancer like this needs putting down. What a tt.
k OFF.A will can be challenged, but not with unsigned and unwitnessed will.
If he wants to challenge, he will have to foot the bill.
As he got the majority I imagine he can't claim he's not been properly provided for so he would have to prove he was promised more, or the will is invalid or that they were pressurised into making the will as signed.
From what you say, I cant see how.
A f
king chancer like this needs putting down. What a tt.Edited by Gary C on Monday 18th September 20:01
If they get a legal opinion that the original will stands (which shouldn’t cost an excessive amount) then they should be able to simply either ignore the other person’s legal representative or just filibuster until they realise all they are doing is running up a big bill.
Presumably it will never see a court of law unless the other person’s lawyer is quite happy to take on a losing case to rack the bill up.
Couple of questions for anyone who knows this stuff.
1.As the estate has been settled will any dispute be at the cost of the person raising it rather than the estate?
2. If the costs aren’t taken out the estate can costs be awarded to the losing party in this kind of dispute?
There are very limited grounds to challenge a will. The attempted angle here seems to be that the sighed, witnessed will is invalid but what's the evidence for that? The presence of a another unsigned document is hardly likely to be enough. This link summarises the position quite well.
https://www.willans.co.uk/knowledge/contesting-wil...
https://www.willans.co.uk/knowledge/contesting-wil...
Tell them to F.R.O. and point them to this https://www.vwv.co.uk/news-and-events/blog/private...
The courts take a dim view of people pissing them about with frivolous claims.
The courts take a dim view of people pissing them about with frivolous claims.
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