Will New Orleans spell the end for Dubya?
Discussion
I do hope so. His gormless boat makes me cringe.
New Orleans looks set to demonstrate, in front of the world's media, how utterly incompetent the "world's policeman" actually is. IIRC from the playground, when the bully's weakness gets exposed (world policeman my arse), the playground gets rather lively. :consultsnostradamus:
The knock-on effects are alarming. Oil price up. Insurance price up. Worldwide economic ripple. Mighty America revealed as feeble. Potential for worldwide political ripple.
It's all very well wheeling out a flock of B-52s to carpet bomb pesky revolting peasants in a faraway land, quite another to deal with a foe face to face. The National Guard daren't venture into some parts of New Orleans. What are they going to do then? "America! F:censored:k yeah!" Yeah, right.
The [extremely sick] joke is that meddling with Iraq had an oil supply agenda. I can't see that Saddam on his worst bad hair day could have caused as much oil trouble as Katrina and the Waves knocking out a load of oil refineries on home turf. And all just after Mayor of Atlantis got turned down for levee maintenance funding, presumably because Dubya had spent too much on bombs to carpet Afghans.
And where are our lot? Lickspittle Bliar was pretty quick off the mark to pledge UK support for Dubya's adventures. Wrong type of friendship gesture IMHO, far better to talk sense to one's idiot chum than join in his follies. Now the right kind of friendship gesture, a helping hand for a friend in need, is conspicuous by its absence. Presumably because we need "our boys" to safeguard ourselves against the backlash of Dubya's dumbass wars.
It's a long time since I've heard the word nincompoop but Dubya meets the definition: [i]n.[/i] a simpleton; a fool.
New Orleans looks set to demonstrate, in front of the world's media, how utterly incompetent the "world's policeman" actually is. IIRC from the playground, when the bully's weakness gets exposed (world policeman my arse), the playground gets rather lively. :consultsnostradamus:
The knock-on effects are alarming. Oil price up. Insurance price up. Worldwide economic ripple. Mighty America revealed as feeble. Potential for worldwide political ripple.
It's all very well wheeling out a flock of B-52s to carpet bomb pesky revolting peasants in a faraway land, quite another to deal with a foe face to face. The National Guard daren't venture into some parts of New Orleans. What are they going to do then? "America! F:censored:k yeah!" Yeah, right.
The [extremely sick] joke is that meddling with Iraq had an oil supply agenda. I can't see that Saddam on his worst bad hair day could have caused as much oil trouble as Katrina and the Waves knocking out a load of oil refineries on home turf. And all just after Mayor of Atlantis got turned down for levee maintenance funding, presumably because Dubya had spent too much on bombs to carpet Afghans.
And where are our lot? Lickspittle Bliar was pretty quick off the mark to pledge UK support for Dubya's adventures. Wrong type of friendship gesture IMHO, far better to talk sense to one's idiot chum than join in his follies. Now the right kind of friendship gesture, a helping hand for a friend in need, is conspicuous by its absence. Presumably because we need "our boys" to safeguard ourselves against the backlash of Dubya's dumbass wars.
It's a long time since I've heard the word nincompoop but Dubya meets the definition: [i]n.[/i] a simpleton; a fool.
He has nothing to lose he is on his second term and will be out in 4 years anyway.
I have just heard on the news that the national guard have been ordered to shoot to kill looters, imagine how that would go down over here, some people kick up a fuss if our police shoot terrorist suspects. all I know is that we should be sending them aid, they help everybody else in the world it's our turn to help them.I know it's the richest country on the planet but the poverty in New Orleans looks just as bad as the poverty after the tsunami.
I have just heard on the news that the national guard have been ordered to shoot to kill looters, imagine how that would go down over here, some people kick up a fuss if our police shoot terrorist suspects. all I know is that we should be sending them aid, they help everybody else in the world it's our turn to help them.I know it's the richest country on the planet but the poverty in New Orleans looks just as bad as the poverty after the tsunami.
los angeles said:
A year ago the Bush administration ordered research be not undertaken, that is, research into finding ways of protecting New Orleans against severe hurricane and flood damage, this in spite of the Federal Emergency Management Agency issuing a report in 2001 stating the certain likelihood of catastrophe.
He wanted, and got, all monies allocated to projects strengthening the water barriers ("Levees" - "Took my Chevy to the Levee"redirected to the Iraq "war." In addition, he managed to cut the number of engineers employed to hold back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by 80%. On top of all that his administration's policy of turning over all wetlands to development robbed the surrounding lands of its natural method of draining excess flood water. Every two miles of wetland is calculated to drain a foot of flood water.
i think you'll find that successive administrations have not given the louisianans money for the levees as this is a local problem that should of been solved through local.
even as recently as July 1st Governor Blanco was signing legislation to lower taxes to "strengthen the state’s business expansion and job creation efforts".
maybe she should of kept some money back and spent it on their flood defences? but hey, key local flood defences should be paid for some unknown reason by the federal govt.
as for aid not actually getting into New Orleans - has anybody actually checked out why? certainly not the press - its because until wednesday and thursday FEMA couldn't actually get into the city in the first place.
and what they could get into the city - there wasn't enough dry area or anywhere they could base themselves as the local administration had not thought that far ahead. hmm, where do we put supplies in a flooded city.
The man can't even safe 'a few' of his fellow Americans . . . it's utterly disgusting. I hope he'll fall hard and America will learn from this choice.
"The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has identified millions of dollars in flood and hurricane protection projects in the New Orleans district.
Chances are, though, most projects will not be funded in the president's 2006 fiscal year budget to be released today.
In general, funding for construction has been on a downward trend for the past several years, said Marcia Demma, chief of the New Orleans Corps' programs management branch.
In 2001, the New Orleans district spent $147 million on construction projects. When fiscal year 2005 wraps up Sept. 30, the Corps expects to have spent $82 million, a 44.2 percent reduction from 2001 expenditures."
Money for guns . . .
"The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has identified millions of dollars in flood and hurricane protection projects in the New Orleans district.
Chances are, though, most projects will not be funded in the president's 2006 fiscal year budget to be released today.
In general, funding for construction has been on a downward trend for the past several years, said Marcia Demma, chief of the New Orleans Corps' programs management branch.
In 2001, the New Orleans district spent $147 million on construction projects. When fiscal year 2005 wraps up Sept. 30, the Corps expects to have spent $82 million, a 44.2 percent reduction from 2001 expenditures."
Money for guns . . .
Saw the nincompoop on the news this evening being interviewed. Usual blathering that made me want to switch channel. Incomprehensible gibberish about food ...about infrastructure ...and then, all of a sudden, some clarity (I'm talking in relative terms here) when he hit the subject of:
:drumroll:
...a f
king oil pipe. Oh yes, he was most enthusiastic and knowledgeable (again, I'm talking in relative terms here) about the bit involving oil.
Not lost on me, either, that the trucks etc. arrived at about the same time as he did. He is a disgusting little cretin. An utter, utter disgrace to humanity. He should be impeached.
:drumroll:
...a f
king oil pipe. Oh yes, he was most enthusiastic and knowledgeable (again, I'm talking in relative terms here) about the bit involving oil. Not lost on me, either, that the trucks etc. arrived at about the same time as he did. He is a disgusting little cretin. An utter, utter disgrace to humanity. He should be impeached.
satch said:But isn't it the poor and ill educated who voted for Bush, and the better off and more educated who voted for Kerry.
it reminds me of John Kerry's parting gesture -
"we have a divided nation"
very true. the rich / the poor, the haves / have nots.
the only redeeming feature so far is the news coverage show Bush and his administration up for the idiots they are
How ironic...
Just a few things, then (and Petros, don't know if that that was aimed at me or not, but I can assure you that I know exactly where NO is):
1. The US Federal Government does not OWN the wetlands. You cannot sell what you do not own. The State of Louisiana and various parishes and cities (including New Orleans) do. Various other wetlands are owned privately. In fact environmental groups say that Mayor of New Orleans Ray Nagin is the culprit when it comes to wetlands development.
2. There is a divided nation, but it is not along the lines of rich and poor. It is along the lines of the so called "media elite" (movie stars, celebs, certain other media personalities, etc, etc) plus the "liberal intelligencia" versus the rest of America. Look at the voting demographics for Bush in the last election. He had support from every economic class going including the people of the State of Louisiana from all walks of life. Quite honestly the citizens of the US don't want ANYONE to tell them who to vote for (including movie stars or citizens of foreign nations - it's anathama to the American culture).
3. Impeachment can only be viable if the President is guilty of "high crimes or misdemeanors". Bill Clinton lied under oath. This is a felony in most jurisdictions ("high crime" ). Bush has violated no statutory laws. I only point this out because I get the distinct impression that some think that impeachment is an American euphamism for "vote of no confidence". There is no such mechanism in the American system of government. Once a President is elected you are stuck with him unless he violates the law or quits.
4. Dinkel, I don't know where you got your quote from, but it mixes up the New Orleans district (a local ogranization) and the US Army Corp of Engineers (a Federal organization) and then attempts to draw some convoluted formula about the difference in spending between the two. Not that it matters much, because, as I have pointed out on other threads the United States President cannot directly spend a dime of the taxpayer's money. That all has to be authorized by Congress. And in case anyone asks - No, the US President does not have the right to arbitrarily ADD nor SUBTRACT budget items without approval of Congress. He does have the right to VETO Congressional spending, but it's an all or nothing scenario (one which Clinton chose to apply TWICE. TWICE Clinton shut down the US Government when he failed to approve a budget. For my money, not a good example of executive power).
If you dislike Bush, fine. The rest of the world loves Blair, but he is not well liked at home. Go figure.
Blaming Bush for the Hurricane devastation, to me, is just as tragic as the Bible thumpers out there blaming it on the wrath of God because of the evil people in New Orleans.
In other words, it's just a fantasy brought on by indoctrinated dogma.
Fire proof clothing well and truly on...
ErnestM
>> Edited by ErnestM on Friday 2nd September 22:28
1. The US Federal Government does not OWN the wetlands. You cannot sell what you do not own. The State of Louisiana and various parishes and cities (including New Orleans) do. Various other wetlands are owned privately. In fact environmental groups say that Mayor of New Orleans Ray Nagin is the culprit when it comes to wetlands development.
2. There is a divided nation, but it is not along the lines of rich and poor. It is along the lines of the so called "media elite" (movie stars, celebs, certain other media personalities, etc, etc) plus the "liberal intelligencia" versus the rest of America. Look at the voting demographics for Bush in the last election. He had support from every economic class going including the people of the State of Louisiana from all walks of life. Quite honestly the citizens of the US don't want ANYONE to tell them who to vote for (including movie stars or citizens of foreign nations - it's anathama to the American culture).
3. Impeachment can only be viable if the President is guilty of "high crimes or misdemeanors". Bill Clinton lied under oath. This is a felony in most jurisdictions ("high crime" ). Bush has violated no statutory laws. I only point this out because I get the distinct impression that some think that impeachment is an American euphamism for "vote of no confidence". There is no such mechanism in the American system of government. Once a President is elected you are stuck with him unless he violates the law or quits.
4. Dinkel, I don't know where you got your quote from, but it mixes up the New Orleans district (a local ogranization) and the US Army Corp of Engineers (a Federal organization) and then attempts to draw some convoluted formula about the difference in spending between the two. Not that it matters much, because, as I have pointed out on other threads the United States President cannot directly spend a dime of the taxpayer's money. That all has to be authorized by Congress. And in case anyone asks - No, the US President does not have the right to arbitrarily ADD nor SUBTRACT budget items without approval of Congress. He does have the right to VETO Congressional spending, but it's an all or nothing scenario (one which Clinton chose to apply TWICE. TWICE Clinton shut down the US Government when he failed to approve a budget. For my money, not a good example of executive power).
If you dislike Bush, fine. The rest of the world loves Blair, but he is not well liked at home. Go figure.
Blaming Bush for the Hurricane devastation, to me, is just as tragic as the Bible thumpers out there blaming it on the wrath of God because of the evil people in New Orleans.
In other words, it's just a fantasy brought on by indoctrinated dogma.
Fire proof clothing well and truly on...
ErnestM
>> Edited by ErnestM on Friday 2nd September 22:28
ErnestM said:
Blaming Bush for the Hurricane devastation, to me, is just as tragic as the Bible thumpers out there blaming it on the wrath of God because of the evil people in New Orleans.
I dont think people are blaming Bush for the Hurricane so much as the way he's handling the relief operation ,i know in a previous thread you sited the size of the US as a logistical problem but surely it would of taken less than 4 days to mobilise food and water drops across the area,he himself has conceded that the initial response was not acceptable.
ErnestM said:This is what I like about the UK. Many people seem to have a healthy (or better
If you dislike Bush, fine. The rest of the world loves Blair, but he is not well liked at home. Go figure.
) distance to their political leader. In the US, politics appear to be some kind of unconditional discipleship, where you either love one of the two contestants, and logically hate the other one. There appears to be no balancing either; the particular discipleship is congenital or acquired.
Or, none of the balanced US PHers contributes to political topics.
BodoWhen people are dying, it's always unacceptable. That's why the layered approach of local first responders and then Federal responders is in place. First the City, then the State, then the Feds.
Jimbeaux works for the State. I can tell you from emails that I have received from a mate in Baton Rouge (Northwest of NO) that the State responders did an OUTSTANDING job there. Of course BR had a better response from City first responders as well. BR got pummeled by the same hurricane, but they have power restored even as I type.
NO is a completely different scenario. The flooding of the city complicated matters. It made local evacuation routes untenable and it reduced the effectiveness of the City first responders. The effectiveness of the State first responders was also reduced because of this.
The only viable rescue options that could be mounted were the Coast Guard (Federal) and National Guard (State) rescuers in the first day or so. That happened. Everyone saw it happening. It is continuing to happen despite the fact the a small number of bastards thinks it will be "rather fun" to shoot on the rescuers.
It is a sad state of affairs and I hope that all are rescued as soon as possible. The blame game can certainly wait until the rescue effort is over.
ErnestM
Jimbeaux works for the State. I can tell you from emails that I have received from a mate in Baton Rouge (Northwest of NO) that the State responders did an OUTSTANDING job there. Of course BR had a better response from City first responders as well. BR got pummeled by the same hurricane, but they have power restored even as I type.
NO is a completely different scenario. The flooding of the city complicated matters. It made local evacuation routes untenable and it reduced the effectiveness of the City first responders. The effectiveness of the State first responders was also reduced because of this.
The only viable rescue options that could be mounted were the Coast Guard (Federal) and National Guard (State) rescuers in the first day or so. That happened. Everyone saw it happening. It is continuing to happen despite the fact the a small number of bastards thinks it will be "rather fun" to shoot on the rescuers.
It is a sad state of affairs and I hope that all are rescued as soon as possible. The blame game can certainly wait until the rescue effort is over.
ErnestM
Bodo said:
If you dislike Bush, fine. The rest of the world loves Blair, but he is not well liked at home. Go figure.
This is what I like about the UK. Many people seem to have a healthy (or better
In the US, politics appear to be some kind of unconditional discipleship, where you either love one of the two contestants, and logically hate the other one. There appears to be no balancing either; the particular discipleship is congenital or acquired.
Or, none of the balanced US PHers contributes to political topics.
i would disagree...the people who voted for blair certainly like him
The problem is, hardly anyone did, becasue too many people couldnt get off theire lazy fat arses to actually vote.
Also Ernest,
Blair is certainly NOT liked around the world.
He might be liked by half of the US, but thats about it.
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