Contract terminated and evicted whilst off sick

[Biker9090]

Writing in respect of a friend. This is in England.

He has been working and living on site for around 3 years now in a caravan that he owns. He has recently been signed off sick due to work related stress. When he moved out of his mum's house around 3 years ago to live permanently on site , his mum notified the council that he was moving out and would no longer be registered there. On his payslip the address is listed as his caravan on the site. He is concerned that he will get in trouble for not paying council tax - he understood that this was being taken care of by the land/site/business owners but it seems that they have not made anyone aware of this.

His main issue is with the owners taking advantage of him and effectively evicting him with next to no notice as well as the demands about him coming back to work whilst signed off sick from a Doctor. Is he liable for any council tax for the time he has been living there and them seemingly not declaring this? The site in question is an egg farm in the North of England.

The below is the explanation from him.

So basically the situation was I handed a 4 week sick note into work on the 25th of september. I collected my pet reptiles from my caravan the day after handing my sick note in because Sarah (HR) threatened that i needed to start paying for the electricty in my van despite me not being in it at the time. So I cut the electric supply to it and sarah confronted me and mum and threatened me again saying my contract will be terminated if i dont return to work within the 4 weeks sick note. After that first week i told sarah im sticking to the 4 weeks off as recommended and so then Sarah arranged a meeting the following thirsday. This meeting consited of them evicting me from site on their beliefs that i have anger issues and its just not turned out the way they had hoped i.e me not wanting to do favours for them anymore because they wont pay me. They refused to acknowledge the good i had done for them for the past nearly 3 years and shot me down about everything. But they still have a job for me to come back to, despite me apparently being an issue to work with.. so i begin taking things away off site, i request a written eviction. I speak to Sarah and she refuses to give me one on the basis that it was an informal agreement and they have not declared me to hmrc that I've been living there.

EDIT: He has just now said that they have terminated his contract (whilst he is still signed off) reason being "long term sickness". It is his 5th week of being signed off.

[520TORQUES]

Talk to citizens advice, they have good employment lawyers.

[ralphrj]

I would also consider calling the modern slavery helpline on 08000 121 700 as it sounds like his employer has been taking advantage of him.

[blue_haddock]

ralphrj said:

I would also consider calling the modern slavery helpline on 08000 121 700 as it sounds like his employer has been taking advantage of him.

Something about living onsite in a caravan does suggest the whole thing is a bit dodgy but could definitely have further reaching implications.

[Pica-Pica]

As said, Citizens Advice Bureau, and modern slavery helpline.

[normalbloke]

I guess all the advantages and pluses of having an informal ‘fringe’ arrangement, are now all the things working against him.

[Simpo Two]

said:

So I cut the electric supply to it...

...not wanting to do favours for them anymore because they wont pay me.

...so i begin taking things away off site

Devil's advocate, he might indeed be a PITA and I wouldn't employ him either. Sarah may be following the law rather better than he is.

[Biker9090]

This is his response re pay

It was between 7:30-1pm work hours a day, and it was on a 3 week rota so 7 days one week and 6 the other 2

And my pay was £10.42 minumum wage

[Biker9090]

Simpo Two said:

Devil's advocate, he might indeed be a PITA and I wouldn't employ him either. Sarah may be following the law rather better than he is.

As I understand it he simply turned it off as he was asked to. It's a standard touring caravan that he owns. He was being asked to work quite a considerable amount of overtime purely because he was on site but not actually be paid for any of it. The things he mentions are his own property (clothes etc).

[hidetheelephants]

Biker9090 said:

Simpo Two said:

Devil's advocate, he might indeed be a PITA and I wouldn't employ him either. Sarah may be following the law rather better than he is.

As I understand it he simply turned it off as he was asked to. It's a standard touring caravan that he owns. He was being asked to work quite a considerable amount of overtime purely because he was on site but not actually be paid for any of it. The things he mentions are his own property (clothes etc).

No pay, then it's not OT; he's been paid well under NMW and his employer should be in for their collar being felt, sounds like other aspects of his employment rights are being fked about with. Maybe think about joining a union if only for the advice to prevent him being stitched up more than he already is.

[nute]

Does he have an employment contract, even if this is just a letter from the farm HR setting out his hours / responsibilities/ pay etc. He should dig that out before going to citizens advice.

Document all that has been said to him by the employer, what they have told him and when and keep a record of ongoing communications. Try to get the whole conversation with them onto email where he can retain a written record.

Based on the info you have posted I don’t think anyone can give him an answer but the more detail he has of how what he’s been told and when the better when he speaks to CAB.

If you have been employed for more than 2 years the employer has to follow a procedure before they can fire you. Have a look at this for a start -

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/dismissal/c...

Edited by nute on Monday 23 October 22:15

[KAgantua]

What was his job on the farm? Wasnt welding was it?

[Simpo Two]

Biker9090 said:

Simpo Two said:

Devil's advocate, he might indeed be a PITA and I wouldn't employ him either. Sarah may be following the law rather better than he is.

As I understand it he simply turned it off as he was asked to.

The opening post doesn't say he was asked to turn it off, it says he was asked to pay for it. If he was asked to turn it off, and he did so, why would he be 'confronted' for doing what he was asked?

Biker9090 said:

He was being asked to work quite a considerable amount of overtime purely because he was on site but not actually be paid for any of it.

That wasn't in the opening post either, but I agree that's not acceptable. The work is described as 'favours'; a favour is given free, otherwise it's not a favour, it's work!

I think some detail is getting lost in translation and so the case is getting skewed.

hidetheelephants said:

he's been paid well under NMW

Biker9090 said:

And my pay was £10.42 minumum wage

Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 24th October 10:40

[Biker9090]

Simpo Two said:

Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 24th October 10:40

What exactly does the electic question add here? You seem very focused on that part.

There are "favours" and there are "favours". His point is that they were framing a significant amount of extra work as "favours".

[BrettMRC]

Sounds like most of the dairy workers in these parts.

A lot of them have anger/personality issues TBF.

ETA: I've yet to come across a farmer that wasn't massively tight and exploitative either...

Edited by BrettMRC on Tuesday 24th October 14:36

[MBVitoria]

Assuming he was an employee and on the books for PAYE purposes, dismissal after 5 weeks of sickness is highly likely to be an unfair dismissal.

[hidetheelephants]

Simpo Two said:

That wasn't in the opening post either, but I agree that's not acceptable. The work is described as 'favours'; a favour is given free, otherwise it's not a favour, it's work!

I think some detail is getting lost in translation and so the case is getting skewed.

hidetheelephants said:

he's been paid well under NMW

Biker9090 said:

And my pay was £10.42 minumum wage

Employees don't do employers favours, they do work and get bilked for the wages. A favour might be turning out when the cow shed goes on fire to get the cattle to safety, if it's regular out of hours work then it's work. All these unpaid hours mean someone on a nominal NMW is being cheated and cheating someone on their wages for 3 years ought to be a far more serious offence than it is.

[darreni]

KAgantua said:

What was his job on the farm? Wasnt welding was it?

Lol.

[twing]

KAgantua said:

What was his job on the farm? Wasnt welding was it?

Took me a while

[OutInTheShed]

hidetheelephants said:

Employees don't do employers favours, they do work and get bilked for the wages. A favour might be turning out when the cow shed goes on fire to get the cattle to safety, if it's regular out of hours work then it's work. All these unpaid hours mean someone on a nominal NMW is being cheated and cheating someone on their wages for 3 years ought to be a far more serious offence than it is.

Landowners rarely do caravan dwellers 'favours' either unless something is expected in return.
Doing an employer 'favours' might mean things like being flexible about hours rather than doing free hours.
Some of these things are a two-way street



I would be surprised if this relationship has been a continuous employment contract for the whole time in question.

Council tax is a potential issue, benefit in kind of a rent free caravan pitch also?
I suspect we've got less than half the facts here, and some of those 'facts' may not have been invented yet....

Agriculture has some special tax treatment by HMRC. The farmer is likey to have access to sound advice from the NFU. Quite likely not to have taken it though!

Get well and find another job where you are wanted would be my advice.